Where are the tough questions??
Contributed by: Anonymous
Remember when candidates in the last city council election were assuring us how they were going to ask the tough questions? Well, I don’t know about you but I’m still waiting for most of the candidates that got elected to start asking some questions.
At the last council meeting we saw the council debate for 30-45 minutes about a .50 cent ticket charge on attendees to the amphitheater. Council member Frank Tower had figures about the charge that would impress a CPA, yet when it came to the $52,000,000 Five Rivers project, only Paul Esslinger had questions. In fact, when Mayor Castle asked the council if there were any questions that they would like to ask, for a few seconds, no one said anything. And when Mayor Castle called for the vote, finally Paul Esslinger, bewildered I might add, spoke his peace, and asked some questions.
And Burke Tower took the cake on the amphitheater ticket charge when he said we need to get another year under our belt to determine what kind of ticket charge we should have, if any. Give me a break Burke; what is so hard to understand about a 50 cent charge on a ticket? Let me see if I have this right; you don’t understand and need more information about a 50 cent ticket charge, but you know everything about the Five Rivers project, and don’t have any questions about that??? By the way kudos to Brian Bain and Shirley Mattox for voting in favor of the tickets charge! How is it that we can analyze to death a 50 cent charge on an amphitheater ticket, which I might add tragically failed, but six council members don’t have any questions about a $52,000,000 project?!?!
I specifically remember council member Scheuremann in the last election debates saying how she was going to ask the tough questions. Really Ms. Scheuermann? I haven’t heard you ask one tough question in the seven months you’ve been on the council. As a matter of fact you copped out on the vote for the amphitheater, and you didn’t give a good explanation why? Can you please explain, in detail, how you would directly benefit from that vote; and don’t give me any crap about your employer has privacy restrictions?
Why is it that most politicians always say one thing and then once elected do another? But I must say, if the average person doesn’t get out and vote, special interest groups and special interest council members will continue to bleed us dry.
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Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 10:47 AM MDT
Hey dummy,Waterfest banks with US Bank, Sheuermann's employer. Waterfest is directly affected by the surcharge being placed on their ticket prices. Her vote on such an issue is a conflict of interest.Ever have anything positive to say? All you ever do is complain. Offer something compelling once, will you?Got it?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 10:52 AM MDT
Hey dummy.Scheuermann has to DIRECTLY benefit from the vote.Got it?!
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 10:53 AM MDT
Another thing, dummy.Scheuermann voted for the PMI contract which involves Waterfest and US Bank.Don't be so stupid, dummy.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 10:58 AM MDT
Wrong again, dummy.Waterfest banks with US Bank. Her vote either way could generate money or decrease money Waterfest makes. If Waterfest makes less money, US Bank makes less money. Conflict of interest.You are so stupid you don't even know what you don't know.Humor us all and tell us one thing you like about this city. One.Better yet. Move to Appleton. Got it?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:01 AM MDT
Why did she vote on the PMI project?Man are you dumb
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:04 AM MDT
Grow a set and ask her. You asked about her conflict of interest, and I told you what it was. I don't know about the PMI contract. She had legal advice from the city attorney, as she said at the meeting Tuesday night. Her phone number is in the book. Why don't you ask her, instead of using a public forum to simply try to make her look bad?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:07 AM MDT
You're just like her, a cop-out.You don't know why she voted on the PMI contract, so just throw up your hands and say "I don't know."Why don't you grow a couple and ask her why she votes for one issue, but not the other.And while you have her on the phone, ask her when she's going to ask some tough questions. Dummy.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:08 AM MDT
The other thing you're not getting in regards to the 5 Rivers Resort is that the city council had a TON of information given to it in closed meetings. Don't be so quick to judge that none of them had any questions. Many of their questions were probably answered in closed session prior to the meeting. Esslinger has the knack to appear to ask 'tough' questions when no one else does to make him look like he's the only one concerned about money the city spends. Just because the question isn't asked during the council meeting doesn't mean it hasn't been asked previously. Got it?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:11 AM MDT
Grow a couple and call the council members that voted in favor of the Five Rivers project and tell them that you don't understand it and you want them to explain it to you. You'll either have silence on the other end, or you'll hear "I really don't understand it either."God, you really are stupid!
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:17 AM MDT
I talked to them already, dummy. Remember when they asked us to call them to let them know how constituents feel about the issue? I did! And I think they do have a good understanding of thr issue. You're the one who obviously doesn't. You really are clueless about so many things. You don't like ideas, so you bad mouth them, and criticize people for things you know absolutely nothing about. Keep your head in the sand. You should probably be able to prove that the council members know nothing about the resort before you start making that claim. Appleton is calling. I hear McDonalds up there is hiring. Take your eighth grade education and head north, superstar.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:53 AM MDT
I'm the one who bad mouths?Go back and read your last few posts; superstar.At least I have an 8th grade education, you my friend I don't believe even went to school.Later dummy.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:22 AM MDT
Maybe questions should be asked during council meetings so that the public can actually hear the answers, especially when our money is being spent or our services are being put on a backburner. But to knock Esslinger for asking questions at the meetings or to suggest why he is asking them at the meetings rather than behind closed doors is unfair and uncalled for. Let's also not forget about the times in the past where certain council members have asked questions at meetings, not gotten answers, yet voted for something anyway. That's just plain poor leadership; in fact non-leadership would probably more closely describe it.I, also, don't understand why Mrs. Scheuermann could vote on one aspect of the project, but not another. If she can't vote on it, it certainly seems she ought to at least be able to explain why she can't.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:57 AM MDT
Cheryl,Your comments are right on point.But don't expect "got it" to "get it."I don't think he/she knows how to tie his/her shoes.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:07 PM MDT
Does PMI bank at US Bank? I do not think so. Waterfest does. You should be able to figure it out from there. The key here is direct monetary impact.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:09 PM MDT
When Mr. Esslinger votes present on an issue he states " they are a client of mine". Why is that good enough? Waterfest is a client of Mrs. Scheuermann. Enough said. Remember, monetary gain!
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:25 PM MDT
Waterfest is not a client of Ms. Scheuermann, they are a client of US Bank. She does not have a DIRECT monetary gain.When Paul says "they are a client of mine," he directly benefits because sales people are paid on commission, and he DIRECTLY benefits from that.Why can't you rocket scientists understand this?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:39 PM MDT
So I assume you have talked to MS and she told you she has no monetary gain? Wow, you make so many assumptions with little or NO knowledge.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:27 PM MDT
Esslinger explains what the reason is for his being unable to vote. Mrs. Scheuermann did not. If it was simply a matter of Waterfest banking there why not say it? We'd all understand, but to cite a conflict, then say something about the bank's privacy policy is kind of vague. After all, it apparently is not a huge secret where Waterfest banks, as some of you have so stated, so what's the big deal? Although I am surprised Mr. Dempsey would not have Waterfest bank at his own bank rather than somewhere else. Then there's still the unanswered question of why, if there's this conflict, one piece of the project can be voted on and another cannot. A little clarification would be nice and put things in better perspective, is all.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:31 PM MDT
You are all blowing this out of proportion.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:42 PM MDT
Paul states "they are a client of mine". Does he ever say what the specific reason why he does not vote? (Monetary gain?) He is usually very vague, as are the council members who work for the university. You are asking MS for specifics while not asking others for them.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:57 PM MDT
When a salesperson works on commission everyone understands that client=dollars in salesperson's pocket.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:59 PM MDT
Please, can we leave this alone? MS got info from the city attorney that her involvement when it came to this specific vote was enough to cause a conflict of interest. She abstained given that information. Unless any of you complaining about this (DOR, admin) can show your law degree, ENOUGH!
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 01:22 PM MDT
One doesn't need a law degree to question something. But for what it's worth, I have had several attorneys tell me that I know more about the law than many of their colleagues. Let's also not forget that our own city attorney has given advice in direct conflict with the DA's office and that of the state Attorney General. So a law degree has nothing to do with it. If MS needs to abstain, that's fine. Then the question of why there was no abstention on a contract overseeing the management of that same facility needs to be answered.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 03:29 PM MDT
Call her and ask her then, Cheryl. You want to know so badly. Call her and let us know what you find out.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 04:03 PM MDT
What valuable insight you've provided to the discussion with comments like this one. Goodness, how have we survived without you for so long? But maybe you can "get this" - if Meredith could not explain her reasons in a public setting, what makes you think she'll explain them in a private one?
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 04:05 PM MDT
Perhaps since you are so wise you'd like to try sincerely addressing some of the original points made by "dose of reality." Those being about asking tough questions.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 01:04 PM MDT
Oh, he gets a commission. I never heard him state that. Not all sales people work on commission. Do bankers ever get compensated for recruiting accounts?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 01:03 PM MDT
Let me try this again, and I’ll speak slowly so some of our challenged readers can understand.When you’re in sales, which Paul said he is, you work on commission. You make money on the amount of dollars your client spends with you.For example:If you have a client, say “Widgets are us,” and they spend $5,000 with you, and you make 10% commission, you DIRECTLY make $500.If you work for a company like US Bank, and you don’t service the account, you don’t DIRECTLY benefit.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 01:17 PM MDT
Well Dose, you are wrong on both counts. There are exceptions in both fields. But I guess you just make assumptions in both cases that fit your argument. Your stupidity is only surpassed by your arrogance.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 01:21 PM MDT
Please educate me with the exceptions.If you can't, please don't show any more of your stupidity.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 01:20 PM MDT
Are you really naive enought to think bankers do not get compenstaed for landing lucrative accounts? Have you never had a salesperson state to you, "I do not work on commission"? Hello, do you live under a rock, or do you just choose to be an argumentative ass?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DP on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 02:50 PM MDT
Also, please remember that there are MANY different laws regarding privacy within the banking and securities industry. I side with MS...she CAN'T be more specific. I applaud her professionalism for not exposing specifics. Also, direct and indirect monetary benefit are not always black and white. For example...making an affirmative vote for a client of the bank may put more assets in the bank for that client. If she has a bonus structure that is partially based on new assets coming into the bank, this could increase her bonus. Is that direct, or indirect?? I say you could argue both. She's personally on the hook for any ethics violations, so becuase she may take a conservative approach to a situation shouldn't be held against her.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 03:12 PM MDT
I don't think anyone is saying or even suggesting that she should have violated a conflict - ethical or otherwise. It just hasn't made sense that she has voted on one aspect of the Leach operation and not another.- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 03:33 PM MDT
Waterfest had not entered into a contract with PMI, the Leach, etc when the first votes regarding the leach, promotional company, etc were being decided on. Now that Waterfest is a client of both PMI (who runs the Leach) and US Bank, Scheuermann is obligated to abstain from voting as the conflict now exists.Plus, where else is she supposed to go to get the legal advice as to whether or not she should vote? The city attorney, duh! Whether or not you like him, his opinions, or whatnot, she went to the resource available to council members. Let it go already.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 03:40 PM MDT
You are certainly full of answers. Not necessarily the best answers in the world, but we thank you for trying to clarify. Too bad we couldn't get this kind of clarity at Tuesday night's meeting. But here's a question for you: How exactly do you know so much? If you got the information from M.S. then she still would have violated a privacy policy it seems. If you got the information from someone at city hall, it would appear they have a similar type problem. If you got the information because you work at the bank, then you have violated the privacy policy. That's how it seems on this end.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 04:45 PM MDT
What have I answered that shows I have inside info?Waterfest banks a US Bank. Not anything top secret. What else have I answered? A timing question. Waterfest had not contracted with anyone at the Leach when the vote was made. How do I know? Simple deduction, and a good memory. You see, it was after the PMI bit, and the talk of the $30,000 that Waterfest was going to contribute. Put it in the timeline, and it all makes sense. The last thing I remember contributing is that MS confided Tuesday night that she asked the city attorney if she had a conflict of interest. He provided his definition, she concluded she did. I have not talked to ANYONE about any of this. It just takes a little detective work. Now, Cheryl, prove me wrong. You say me answers aren't the best. Why not? They make sense, don't they? I love how you hate being wrong.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 08:21 PM MDT
"Got it" - The $30,000 figure you referenced is the dollar amount PMI is paying the city. And again, any facility charge would technically be paid by the people purchasing the tickets, unless of course, Waterfest is planning to purchase all tickets for all their events themselves. Good Lord, you can't even get the basics right on this. Given that, I don't think we should bother responding to the rest of your nonsense. It's nothing more than drivel. That much you've proven here today.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 08:40 PM MDT
Hey "got it" how do you know Waterfest banks at U.S. Bank? Also, as to your timeline, your memory is about as shaky as your deductive processes. Construction on the Leach was still going on and Waterfest was talking about using it. In fact, Mike Dempsey was a very active participant in the planning meetings for the Leach. Also, I well remember during the spring common council campaign David Leach talking with me and Paul Esslinger about Waterfest's intentions to use the facility. So while a contract may not have actually been signed with PMI (it wouldn't have necessarily been signed with Leach as you mentioned, so I think you're getting the different entities confused again), they certainly had given every indication of their intention to use the facility. Instead of relying solely on memory, assumptions and deductive processes, you might be better served and better be able to take part in the discussion if you had more hard facts rather than memory and suppositions. It's just a thought.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 06:13 AM MDT
Anyone else notice how in the beginning of this discussion "got it" said they didn't know about the PMI contract questions, but suddenly now they are as full of answers as they are of themselves?- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 08:19 AM MDT
Yes, maybe "got it" has a conflict also.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: OshRocks! on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 02:57 PM MDT
here here! I was going to type this in a response, but you said it well - there have been hours and hours of closed door meetings in which everyone had an opportunity to ask questions - no one else seems to have the need to grandstand.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 06:16 AM MDT
Again, as was previously mentioned, perhaps questions should be asked at the council meetings, even if they've been previously asked in a closed door meeting. That way the public who usually foots the bill but doesn't get to participate in the conversation can actually hear the answers. We might just feel a little more comfortable with the council votes. But knowledge is power and maybe they'd rather we didn't know.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: L Schaffer on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 04:37 PM MDT
Hey "oshrocks", how does the average taxpayer know if the tough questions were asked, the meetings were held behind closed doors, minutes of those meetings are never published in the paper, are we as taxpayers suppose to take the word of a politician, I THINK NOT. What gets me mad about the whole thing is our council members beat to death a surcharge for the amphitheatre and does nothing to help protect the taxpayer and then during council meetings in front of taxpayers do not ask questions about a project that costs over $50 million dollars, this is totality unexceptable.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 04:09 PM MDT
Hey "got it" - here's a reality check you might want to consider. The people who buy the tickets for events at the Leach are the ones who actually would be paying the user fee, not Waterfest. So technically, the money is not coming from Waterfest, but rather the users. And after all, they're the ones who should be paying for this facility.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 04:49 PM MDT
Come on Cheryl, do you really miss this that badly?If there is an additional fee tacked on, Waterfest might lose money because *gasp* the 50 cents or a buck might keep people away. If that is the case and Waterfest loses money, they don't invest as much with US Bank. As MS has WF as an account with US Bank, US Bank may lose money. So of MS votes for or against it, it could have a direct monetary impact on the business she works for.Got it? It ain't really that complicated.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: L Schaffer on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 06:14 PM MDT
Hey "got it" are you that brainwashed that you believe everything that the city council says and MS as long as she has been on the city council has not shown me yet that she can ask questions that are important. Stop with the bad comments and start listening, you might learn something.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 06:57 PM MDT
No, L Schaffer....I do my own homework. I ask my own questions. What is the big deal over a council member saying they have a conflict, and they were advised my the city attorney that they should abstain? That is all this is really about. Why are people like Esslinger, Cheryl Hentz and Dose of (Un)Reality so blind to this? Beyond that-- is it really that big a deal?If you watch the meetings, and read the minutes, it really isn't that hard to understand....
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 08:05 PM MDT
Apparently it IS that hard to understand - for you, "got it." If you have all these answers as to what the real conflict of interest is for Mrs. Scheuerman than they must be a matter of public knowledge somehow. In that case there shouldn't be a problem for those reasons to be cited, or so it would appear. Yet there was this big veil of secrecy at Tuesday's meeting and a privacy policy cited. I understand privacy policies and respect the decision not to vote if that is the case. But here again, you claim to know the real reasons and a few others claim to know. I think it is fair to ask how you know if no one else can. If you don't get that, then refer to my earlier posting and it might be a little more clearly spelled out for you so you can "get it." In addition to that, everyone is still missing the meat and potatoes of "dose's" original posting.
- Cheryl
FYI: I don't hate being wrong, "got it" and I''ll admit it when I am. (So see, you don't know as much as you want people to think you do) But you have not proven any of us wrong yet. Nor have you really addressed the main issues; all you've really done is throw things out there that are more than likely supposition on your part and attack others. If you're so sure of yourself and have nothing to hide, stand up and sign your real name. Can you "get that?"
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 08:15 PM MDT
I think you have missed it pretty badly, "got it." The legal reason to abstain is when you can directly benefit from something. If Waterfest loses money and doesn't invest as much, there is no benefit derived by anyone. But that explanation is really a stretch. I also believe that peolpe should abstain when there could be an appearance on a conflict. But you have suggested a timeline that doesn't entirely make sense either. Do you actually think that Waterfest - an organization that has been around for several years now - has just changed over to U.S. Bank in the last 6 months since M.S. has been on the council or since the vote on PMI occurred? I doubt it. And again, it would make more sense that Mike Dempsey would have Waterfest bank at his own bank, not U.S. Bank. It is interesting how "got it" seems to ignore those things s/he doesn't have an answer for. But we understand it is hard to stay on top of everything, especially when one is so busy reading all those meeting minutes and making all those phone calls to get information right from the horse's mouth.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 09:10 PM MDT
Please refer to DP's post above.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 10:01 PM MDT
Speaking for myself, I said earlier that I understand about conflicts, etc. But "got it" continues with a lot of things that simply don't make sense, are inaccurate or which ignore some of which has been asked. Then as a follow-up, "got it" makes nasty comments to others who take an opposing position. Finally, instead of addressing the "tough questions" comments, all "got it" has chosen to do is attack Paul Esslinger for asking tough questions in the council chambers and makes presumptuous comments about Paul's motive for doing so.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 05:17 AM MDT
That's what makes this forum so interesting. Idiots on here like dose of reality can call names, make accusations that border on slander, etc, and as long as they are in line with admin, they are just fine. But when someone challenges something that goes against what Cheryl believes, all of a sudden they are attacking, misinformed, should sign their name, etc. Interesting how this forum works, isn't it?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 05:36 AM MDT
Slander? Please, do you even know what slander is, Mr/Ms. Attorney?Would you please point out where there have been slanderous comments?Face it, you and maybe one other misinformed individual are the ones sticking up for M.S. Everyone else seems to “get it.”Got it “Get it.”
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 06:08 AM MDT
Hey "got it," you started with the name-calling and accusations in your very first response. You immediately called "dose of reality" a "dummy." Anyone reading this thread of responses can see that. You got what you deserved and now you're complaining about it. You've subequently said that "dose" says things bordering on slander. Again, you know not of what you speak. There was nothing slanderous said in "dose's" comments, but you should be aware that the threshhold for claiming and proving slander is much higher for an elected official than it is for a private citizen. Mind you, I'm not saying that makes it right to slander an elected official, but "dose" didn't say anything close to slanderous. Interesting how people like you make the same old tired argument, even though the obvious has been pointed out. And then when your arguments have been shot down and your positions have no more steam in them, you resort to complaining about the site and how I run it. And you base my reasoning on the fact that someone has disagreed with me. It's really quite humorous and certainly predictable. Tell you what, "got it," I'll be happy to delete your username. That way you'll be insulated from having to see the "name-calling" and "near slanderous" remarks you accuse others of doing. We have all merely defended ourselves against your misstatements of fact and name calling. You just can't take it or adequately defend your position. And again, you know my real identity and I know yours. If you're so sure that you're right, I encourage you to share your identity with everyone else. I think that will put things in a greater perspective for others. Others can certainly do the same. Until then, please let me know if you'd like your username deleted. I aim to please.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 09:54 AM MDT
I don't think this is about "sticking up" for MS. I think some of us understand the situation while other refuse to see the position MS is in. I believe it has been explained quite clearly. Again, I refer you to the post above by DP. If you still do not understand I would suggest you contact MS. Hopefully she can clear things up for you. This is about policy not personalities.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 10:01 AM MDT
Dose were you not there when MS asked tough questions to our parks director about the pier issue. Other than Paul, she has probably asked the most "tough questions" of any member of the council. Should she ask more, possibly. IWe can sit here and pick apart any member of this council. Yes, even your man Saint Paul. (Who I voted for) Dose, you seem like a very negative bitter person. Just once I would like to see you contribute something positive to this board. It is easy to sit back and take shots at people after the fact.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 10:24 AM MDT
Please stop with this “just once say something positive” B.S.Yea, I get negative when our elected people are grossly derelict in their duties, and say things to get elected and then do something else when they get elected.But if you must, I’ll say some positive things:Oshkosh has very warm and caring people, we have a low crime rate, our parks system is good, (although Menominee Park is becoming a zoo, literally) we have good services including our fire and police protection, we have some wonderful businesses, (EAA, Oshkosh Truck, Beamis to name a few) we have many fine churches, we have a good sense of our history, and we generally are considerate of other peoples opinions. I could mention many more, but you asked for one, and I gave several.So for you and others who don’t seem to mind that we have people representing us that in my opinion are centered around special interest groups, I’m sure things are really great. But for me, someone who is concerned about taxes and special interest groups running the city, things can be somewhat negative at times, and I won’t apologize for it.I must admit, M.S. was impressive regarding the pier issue, but outside of that subject, she has contributed little. Please be a little more objective in your defense of M.S.By the way, should I refer to some religious label for M.S. seeing as you fall at her feet at every corner?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 10:14 PM MDT
This is the first time I have defended her. I told you I voted for Paul. I just call them as I see them. I totally disagree with MS on the fee issue. If you recall she verbally sided with the Twin Towers. I believe we need a fee on the Leach and we should also be using PMI or fee dollars to pay down the debt on the Leach. I do not blindly follow any candidate.
Remember when candidates in the last city council election were assuring us how they were going to ask the tough questions? Well, I don’t know about you but I’m still waiting for most of the candidates that got elected to start asking some questions.
At the last council meeting we saw the council debate for 30-45 minutes about a .50 cent ticket charge on attendees to the amphitheater. Council member Frank Tower had figures about the charge that would impress a CPA, yet when it came to the $52,000,000 Five Rivers project, only Paul Esslinger had questions. In fact, when Mayor Castle asked the council if there were any questions that they would like to ask, for a few seconds, no one said anything. And when Mayor Castle called for the vote, finally Paul Esslinger, bewildered I might add, spoke his peace, and asked some questions.
And Burke Tower took the cake on the amphitheater ticket charge when he said we need to get another year under our belt to determine what kind of ticket charge we should have, if any. Give me a break Burke; what is so hard to understand about a 50 cent charge on a ticket? Let me see if I have this right; you don’t understand and need more information about a 50 cent ticket charge, but you know everything about the Five Rivers project, and don’t have any questions about that??? By the way kudos to Brian Bain and Shirley Mattox for voting in favor of the tickets charge! How is it that we can analyze to death a 50 cent charge on an amphitheater ticket, which I might add tragically failed, but six council members don’t have any questions about a $52,000,000 project?!?!
I specifically remember council member Scheuremann in the last election debates saying how she was going to ask the tough questions. Really Ms. Scheuermann? I haven’t heard you ask one tough question in the seven months you’ve been on the council. As a matter of fact you copped out on the vote for the amphitheater, and you didn’t give a good explanation why? Can you please explain, in detail, how you would directly benefit from that vote; and don’t give me any crap about your employer has privacy restrictions?
Why is it that most politicians always say one thing and then once elected do another? But I must say, if the average person doesn’t get out and vote, special interest groups and special interest council members will continue to bleed us dry.
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Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 10:47 AM MDT
Hey dummy,Waterfest banks with US Bank, Sheuermann's employer. Waterfest is directly affected by the surcharge being placed on their ticket prices. Her vote on such an issue is a conflict of interest.Ever have anything positive to say? All you ever do is complain. Offer something compelling once, will you?Got it?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 10:52 AM MDT
Hey dummy.Scheuermann has to DIRECTLY benefit from the vote.Got it?!
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 10:53 AM MDT
Another thing, dummy.Scheuermann voted for the PMI contract which involves Waterfest and US Bank.Don't be so stupid, dummy.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 10:58 AM MDT
Wrong again, dummy.Waterfest banks with US Bank. Her vote either way could generate money or decrease money Waterfest makes. If Waterfest makes less money, US Bank makes less money. Conflict of interest.You are so stupid you don't even know what you don't know.Humor us all and tell us one thing you like about this city. One.Better yet. Move to Appleton. Got it?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:01 AM MDT
Why did she vote on the PMI project?Man are you dumb
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:04 AM MDT
Grow a set and ask her. You asked about her conflict of interest, and I told you what it was. I don't know about the PMI contract. She had legal advice from the city attorney, as she said at the meeting Tuesday night. Her phone number is in the book. Why don't you ask her, instead of using a public forum to simply try to make her look bad?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:07 AM MDT
You're just like her, a cop-out.You don't know why she voted on the PMI contract, so just throw up your hands and say "I don't know."Why don't you grow a couple and ask her why she votes for one issue, but not the other.And while you have her on the phone, ask her when she's going to ask some tough questions. Dummy.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:08 AM MDT
The other thing you're not getting in regards to the 5 Rivers Resort is that the city council had a TON of information given to it in closed meetings. Don't be so quick to judge that none of them had any questions. Many of their questions were probably answered in closed session prior to the meeting. Esslinger has the knack to appear to ask 'tough' questions when no one else does to make him look like he's the only one concerned about money the city spends. Just because the question isn't asked during the council meeting doesn't mean it hasn't been asked previously. Got it?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:11 AM MDT
Grow a couple and call the council members that voted in favor of the Five Rivers project and tell them that you don't understand it and you want them to explain it to you. You'll either have silence on the other end, or you'll hear "I really don't understand it either."God, you really are stupid!
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:17 AM MDT
I talked to them already, dummy. Remember when they asked us to call them to let them know how constituents feel about the issue? I did! And I think they do have a good understanding of thr issue. You're the one who obviously doesn't. You really are clueless about so many things. You don't like ideas, so you bad mouth them, and criticize people for things you know absolutely nothing about. Keep your head in the sand. You should probably be able to prove that the council members know nothing about the resort before you start making that claim. Appleton is calling. I hear McDonalds up there is hiring. Take your eighth grade education and head north, superstar.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:53 AM MDT
I'm the one who bad mouths?Go back and read your last few posts; superstar.At least I have an 8th grade education, you my friend I don't believe even went to school.Later dummy.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:22 AM MDT
Maybe questions should be asked during council meetings so that the public can actually hear the answers, especially when our money is being spent or our services are being put on a backburner. But to knock Esslinger for asking questions at the meetings or to suggest why he is asking them at the meetings rather than behind closed doors is unfair and uncalled for. Let's also not forget about the times in the past where certain council members have asked questions at meetings, not gotten answers, yet voted for something anyway. That's just plain poor leadership; in fact non-leadership would probably more closely describe it.I, also, don't understand why Mrs. Scheuermann could vote on one aspect of the project, but not another. If she can't vote on it, it certainly seems she ought to at least be able to explain why she can't.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 11:57 AM MDT
Cheryl,Your comments are right on point.But don't expect "got it" to "get it."I don't think he/she knows how to tie his/her shoes.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:07 PM MDT
Does PMI bank at US Bank? I do not think so. Waterfest does. You should be able to figure it out from there. The key here is direct monetary impact.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:09 PM MDT
When Mr. Esslinger votes present on an issue he states " they are a client of mine". Why is that good enough? Waterfest is a client of Mrs. Scheuermann. Enough said. Remember, monetary gain!
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:25 PM MDT
Waterfest is not a client of Ms. Scheuermann, they are a client of US Bank. She does not have a DIRECT monetary gain.When Paul says "they are a client of mine," he directly benefits because sales people are paid on commission, and he DIRECTLY benefits from that.Why can't you rocket scientists understand this?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:39 PM MDT
So I assume you have talked to MS and she told you she has no monetary gain? Wow, you make so many assumptions with little or NO knowledge.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:27 PM MDT
Esslinger explains what the reason is for his being unable to vote. Mrs. Scheuermann did not. If it was simply a matter of Waterfest banking there why not say it? We'd all understand, but to cite a conflict, then say something about the bank's privacy policy is kind of vague. After all, it apparently is not a huge secret where Waterfest banks, as some of you have so stated, so what's the big deal? Although I am surprised Mr. Dempsey would not have Waterfest bank at his own bank rather than somewhere else. Then there's still the unanswered question of why, if there's this conflict, one piece of the project can be voted on and another cannot. A little clarification would be nice and put things in better perspective, is all.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:31 PM MDT
You are all blowing this out of proportion.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:42 PM MDT
Paul states "they are a client of mine". Does he ever say what the specific reason why he does not vote? (Monetary gain?) He is usually very vague, as are the council members who work for the university. You are asking MS for specifics while not asking others for them.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:57 PM MDT
When a salesperson works on commission everyone understands that client=dollars in salesperson's pocket.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 12:59 PM MDT
Please, can we leave this alone? MS got info from the city attorney that her involvement when it came to this specific vote was enough to cause a conflict of interest. She abstained given that information. Unless any of you complaining about this (DOR, admin) can show your law degree, ENOUGH!
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 01:22 PM MDT
One doesn't need a law degree to question something. But for what it's worth, I have had several attorneys tell me that I know more about the law than many of their colleagues. Let's also not forget that our own city attorney has given advice in direct conflict with the DA's office and that of the state Attorney General. So a law degree has nothing to do with it. If MS needs to abstain, that's fine. Then the question of why there was no abstention on a contract overseeing the management of that same facility needs to be answered.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 03:29 PM MDT
Call her and ask her then, Cheryl. You want to know so badly. Call her and let us know what you find out.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 04:03 PM MDT
What valuable insight you've provided to the discussion with comments like this one. Goodness, how have we survived without you for so long? But maybe you can "get this" - if Meredith could not explain her reasons in a public setting, what makes you think she'll explain them in a private one?
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 04:05 PM MDT
Perhaps since you are so wise you'd like to try sincerely addressing some of the original points made by "dose of reality." Those being about asking tough questions.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 01:04 PM MDT
Oh, he gets a commission. I never heard him state that. Not all sales people work on commission. Do bankers ever get compensated for recruiting accounts?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 01:03 PM MDT
Let me try this again, and I’ll speak slowly so some of our challenged readers can understand.When you’re in sales, which Paul said he is, you work on commission. You make money on the amount of dollars your client spends with you.For example:If you have a client, say “Widgets are us,” and they spend $5,000 with you, and you make 10% commission, you DIRECTLY make $500.If you work for a company like US Bank, and you don’t service the account, you don’t DIRECTLY benefit.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 01:17 PM MDT
Well Dose, you are wrong on both counts. There are exceptions in both fields. But I guess you just make assumptions in both cases that fit your argument. Your stupidity is only surpassed by your arrogance.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 01:21 PM MDT
Please educate me with the exceptions.If you can't, please don't show any more of your stupidity.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 01:20 PM MDT
Are you really naive enought to think bankers do not get compenstaed for landing lucrative accounts? Have you never had a salesperson state to you, "I do not work on commission"? Hello, do you live under a rock, or do you just choose to be an argumentative ass?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DP on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 02:50 PM MDT
Also, please remember that there are MANY different laws regarding privacy within the banking and securities industry. I side with MS...she CAN'T be more specific. I applaud her professionalism for not exposing specifics. Also, direct and indirect monetary benefit are not always black and white. For example...making an affirmative vote for a client of the bank may put more assets in the bank for that client. If she has a bonus structure that is partially based on new assets coming into the bank, this could increase her bonus. Is that direct, or indirect?? I say you could argue both. She's personally on the hook for any ethics violations, so becuase she may take a conservative approach to a situation shouldn't be held against her.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 03:12 PM MDT
I don't think anyone is saying or even suggesting that she should have violated a conflict - ethical or otherwise. It just hasn't made sense that she has voted on one aspect of the Leach operation and not another.- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 03:33 PM MDT
Waterfest had not entered into a contract with PMI, the Leach, etc when the first votes regarding the leach, promotional company, etc were being decided on. Now that Waterfest is a client of both PMI (who runs the Leach) and US Bank, Scheuermann is obligated to abstain from voting as the conflict now exists.Plus, where else is she supposed to go to get the legal advice as to whether or not she should vote? The city attorney, duh! Whether or not you like him, his opinions, or whatnot, she went to the resource available to council members. Let it go already.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 03:40 PM MDT
You are certainly full of answers. Not necessarily the best answers in the world, but we thank you for trying to clarify. Too bad we couldn't get this kind of clarity at Tuesday night's meeting. But here's a question for you: How exactly do you know so much? If you got the information from M.S. then she still would have violated a privacy policy it seems. If you got the information from someone at city hall, it would appear they have a similar type problem. If you got the information because you work at the bank, then you have violated the privacy policy. That's how it seems on this end.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 04:45 PM MDT
What have I answered that shows I have inside info?Waterfest banks a US Bank. Not anything top secret. What else have I answered? A timing question. Waterfest had not contracted with anyone at the Leach when the vote was made. How do I know? Simple deduction, and a good memory. You see, it was after the PMI bit, and the talk of the $30,000 that Waterfest was going to contribute. Put it in the timeline, and it all makes sense. The last thing I remember contributing is that MS confided Tuesday night that she asked the city attorney if she had a conflict of interest. He provided his definition, she concluded she did. I have not talked to ANYONE about any of this. It just takes a little detective work. Now, Cheryl, prove me wrong. You say me answers aren't the best. Why not? They make sense, don't they? I love how you hate being wrong.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 08:21 PM MDT
"Got it" - The $30,000 figure you referenced is the dollar amount PMI is paying the city. And again, any facility charge would technically be paid by the people purchasing the tickets, unless of course, Waterfest is planning to purchase all tickets for all their events themselves. Good Lord, you can't even get the basics right on this. Given that, I don't think we should bother responding to the rest of your nonsense. It's nothing more than drivel. That much you've proven here today.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 08:40 PM MDT
Hey "got it" how do you know Waterfest banks at U.S. Bank? Also, as to your timeline, your memory is about as shaky as your deductive processes. Construction on the Leach was still going on and Waterfest was talking about using it. In fact, Mike Dempsey was a very active participant in the planning meetings for the Leach. Also, I well remember during the spring common council campaign David Leach talking with me and Paul Esslinger about Waterfest's intentions to use the facility. So while a contract may not have actually been signed with PMI (it wouldn't have necessarily been signed with Leach as you mentioned, so I think you're getting the different entities confused again), they certainly had given every indication of their intention to use the facility. Instead of relying solely on memory, assumptions and deductive processes, you might be better served and better be able to take part in the discussion if you had more hard facts rather than memory and suppositions. It's just a thought.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 06:13 AM MDT
Anyone else notice how in the beginning of this discussion "got it" said they didn't know about the PMI contract questions, but suddenly now they are as full of answers as they are of themselves?- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 08:19 AM MDT
Yes, maybe "got it" has a conflict also.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: OshRocks! on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 02:57 PM MDT
here here! I was going to type this in a response, but you said it well - there have been hours and hours of closed door meetings in which everyone had an opportunity to ask questions - no one else seems to have the need to grandstand.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 06:16 AM MDT
Again, as was previously mentioned, perhaps questions should be asked at the council meetings, even if they've been previously asked in a closed door meeting. That way the public who usually foots the bill but doesn't get to participate in the conversation can actually hear the answers. We might just feel a little more comfortable with the council votes. But knowledge is power and maybe they'd rather we didn't know.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: L Schaffer on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 04:37 PM MDT
Hey "oshrocks", how does the average taxpayer know if the tough questions were asked, the meetings were held behind closed doors, minutes of those meetings are never published in the paper, are we as taxpayers suppose to take the word of a politician, I THINK NOT. What gets me mad about the whole thing is our council members beat to death a surcharge for the amphitheatre and does nothing to help protect the taxpayer and then during council meetings in front of taxpayers do not ask questions about a project that costs over $50 million dollars, this is totality unexceptable.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 04:09 PM MDT
Hey "got it" - here's a reality check you might want to consider. The people who buy the tickets for events at the Leach are the ones who actually would be paying the user fee, not Waterfest. So technically, the money is not coming from Waterfest, but rather the users. And after all, they're the ones who should be paying for this facility.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 04:49 PM MDT
Come on Cheryl, do you really miss this that badly?If there is an additional fee tacked on, Waterfest might lose money because *gasp* the 50 cents or a buck might keep people away. If that is the case and Waterfest loses money, they don't invest as much with US Bank. As MS has WF as an account with US Bank, US Bank may lose money. So of MS votes for or against it, it could have a direct monetary impact on the business she works for.Got it? It ain't really that complicated.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: L Schaffer on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 06:14 PM MDT
Hey "got it" are you that brainwashed that you believe everything that the city council says and MS as long as she has been on the city council has not shown me yet that she can ask questions that are important. Stop with the bad comments and start listening, you might learn something.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 06:57 PM MDT
No, L Schaffer....I do my own homework. I ask my own questions. What is the big deal over a council member saying they have a conflict, and they were advised my the city attorney that they should abstain? That is all this is really about. Why are people like Esslinger, Cheryl Hentz and Dose of (Un)Reality so blind to this? Beyond that-- is it really that big a deal?If you watch the meetings, and read the minutes, it really isn't that hard to understand....
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 08:05 PM MDT
Apparently it IS that hard to understand - for you, "got it." If you have all these answers as to what the real conflict of interest is for Mrs. Scheuerman than they must be a matter of public knowledge somehow. In that case there shouldn't be a problem for those reasons to be cited, or so it would appear. Yet there was this big veil of secrecy at Tuesday's meeting and a privacy policy cited. I understand privacy policies and respect the decision not to vote if that is the case. But here again, you claim to know the real reasons and a few others claim to know. I think it is fair to ask how you know if no one else can. If you don't get that, then refer to my earlier posting and it might be a little more clearly spelled out for you so you can "get it." In addition to that, everyone is still missing the meat and potatoes of "dose's" original posting.
- Cheryl
FYI: I don't hate being wrong, "got it" and I''ll admit it when I am. (So see, you don't know as much as you want people to think you do) But you have not proven any of us wrong yet. Nor have you really addressed the main issues; all you've really done is throw things out there that are more than likely supposition on your part and attack others. If you're so sure of yourself and have nothing to hide, stand up and sign your real name. Can you "get that?"
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 08:15 PM MDT
I think you have missed it pretty badly, "got it." The legal reason to abstain is when you can directly benefit from something. If Waterfest loses money and doesn't invest as much, there is no benefit derived by anyone. But that explanation is really a stretch. I also believe that peolpe should abstain when there could be an appearance on a conflict. But you have suggested a timeline that doesn't entirely make sense either. Do you actually think that Waterfest - an organization that has been around for several years now - has just changed over to U.S. Bank in the last 6 months since M.S. has been on the council or since the vote on PMI occurred? I doubt it. And again, it would make more sense that Mike Dempsey would have Waterfest bank at his own bank, not U.S. Bank. It is interesting how "got it" seems to ignore those things s/he doesn't have an answer for. But we understand it is hard to stay on top of everything, especially when one is so busy reading all those meeting minutes and making all those phone calls to get information right from the horse's mouth.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 09:10 PM MDT
Please refer to DP's post above.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Thursday, October 27 2005 @ 10:01 PM MDT
Speaking for myself, I said earlier that I understand about conflicts, etc. But "got it" continues with a lot of things that simply don't make sense, are inaccurate or which ignore some of which has been asked. Then as a follow-up, "got it" makes nasty comments to others who take an opposing position. Finally, instead of addressing the "tough questions" comments, all "got it" has chosen to do is attack Paul Esslinger for asking tough questions in the council chambers and makes presumptuous comments about Paul's motive for doing so.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: got it on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 05:17 AM MDT
That's what makes this forum so interesting. Idiots on here like dose of reality can call names, make accusations that border on slander, etc, and as long as they are in line with admin, they are just fine. But when someone challenges something that goes against what Cheryl believes, all of a sudden they are attacking, misinformed, should sign their name, etc. Interesting how this forum works, isn't it?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 05:36 AM MDT
Slander? Please, do you even know what slander is, Mr/Ms. Attorney?Would you please point out where there have been slanderous comments?Face it, you and maybe one other misinformed individual are the ones sticking up for M.S. Everyone else seems to “get it.”Got it “Get it.”
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: admin on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 06:08 AM MDT
Hey "got it," you started with the name-calling and accusations in your very first response. You immediately called "dose of reality" a "dummy." Anyone reading this thread of responses can see that. You got what you deserved and now you're complaining about it. You've subequently said that "dose" says things bordering on slander. Again, you know not of what you speak. There was nothing slanderous said in "dose's" comments, but you should be aware that the threshhold for claiming and proving slander is much higher for an elected official than it is for a private citizen. Mind you, I'm not saying that makes it right to slander an elected official, but "dose" didn't say anything close to slanderous. Interesting how people like you make the same old tired argument, even though the obvious has been pointed out. And then when your arguments have been shot down and your positions have no more steam in them, you resort to complaining about the site and how I run it. And you base my reasoning on the fact that someone has disagreed with me. It's really quite humorous and certainly predictable. Tell you what, "got it," I'll be happy to delete your username. That way you'll be insulated from having to see the "name-calling" and "near slanderous" remarks you accuse others of doing. We have all merely defended ourselves against your misstatements of fact and name calling. You just can't take it or adequately defend your position. And again, you know my real identity and I know yours. If you're so sure that you're right, I encourage you to share your identity with everyone else. I think that will put things in a greater perspective for others. Others can certainly do the same. Until then, please let me know if you'd like your username deleted. I aim to please.
- Cheryl
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 09:54 AM MDT
I don't think this is about "sticking up" for MS. I think some of us understand the situation while other refuse to see the position MS is in. I believe it has been explained quite clearly. Again, I refer you to the post above by DP. If you still do not understand I would suggest you contact MS. Hopefully she can clear things up for you. This is about policy not personalities.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 10:01 AM MDT
Dose were you not there when MS asked tough questions to our parks director about the pier issue. Other than Paul, she has probably asked the most "tough questions" of any member of the council. Should she ask more, possibly. IWe can sit here and pick apart any member of this council. Yes, even your man Saint Paul. (Who I voted for) Dose, you seem like a very negative bitter person. Just once I would like to see you contribute something positive to this board. It is easy to sit back and take shots at people after the fact.
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 10:24 AM MDT
Please stop with this “just once say something positive” B.S.Yea, I get negative when our elected people are grossly derelict in their duties, and say things to get elected and then do something else when they get elected.But if you must, I’ll say some positive things:Oshkosh has very warm and caring people, we have a low crime rate, our parks system is good, (although Menominee Park is becoming a zoo, literally) we have good services including our fire and police protection, we have some wonderful businesses, (EAA, Oshkosh Truck, Beamis to name a few) we have many fine churches, we have a good sense of our history, and we generally are considerate of other peoples opinions. I could mention many more, but you asked for one, and I gave several.So for you and others who don’t seem to mind that we have people representing us that in my opinion are centered around special interest groups, I’m sure things are really great. But for me, someone who is concerned about taxes and special interest groups running the city, things can be somewhat negative at times, and I won’t apologize for it.I must admit, M.S. was impressive regarding the pier issue, but outside of that subject, she has contributed little. Please be a little more objective in your defense of M.S.By the way, should I refer to some religious label for M.S. seeing as you fall at her feet at every corner?
Where are the tough questions??
Authored by: DRR on Friday, October 28 2005 @ 10:14 PM MDT
This is the first time I have defended her. I told you I voted for Paul. I just call them as I see them. I totally disagree with MS on the fee issue. If you recall she verbally sided with the Twin Towers. I believe we need a fee on the Leach and we should also be using PMI or fee dollars to pay down the debt on the Leach. I do not blindly follow any candidate.
posted by Cheryl Hentz at 11:19 AM
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