Has Esslinger lost it?
Contributed by: Anonymous
After last nights council meeting I am starting to wonder if Paul has lost his perspective. I voted for the guy but was a little concerned about the ongoing negative spin he puts on just about every issue. Don't we have better things to focus on than the zoo admission fees? This is a non-issue!!! The plan has been in place for a while but Paul thinks it is necessary to bring it up a week or so before the zoo opens. I take the kids to the zoo probably 3-4 times a year. I buy a family pass to support the zoo for $12.00. It isnt in competition with the N.E.W. Zoo or Milwaukee's Zoo. It is a nice place to visit a few times in the Summer. The plan to replace exotic species with indigenous is a good one!
I believe the focus should be on street repairs and development. Issues that are much more pertinent to citizens in this city. Why are we wasting time at council meetings on these types of issues. I listen to this discussion and cringe as I think that any day now truck #48 will be coming down my pot-holed road to "fill in" the holes with black top. We see this guy every year, and it does absolutely nothing for the street. I cringe at the thought that my terrace in front of my house continues to erode every year, and the apron has standing water in it 60% of the time.
Is it grandstanding on his part as Ms. Strand mentioned last night. Or just a guy who is nit picking every issue he can to seem to be the "people's" candidate. Well Paul, this person is tired of the negative spin on things that make Oshkosh what it is, and a decent place to live.
Let's get our priorities straight here!
Jim B.
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: admin on Wednesday, April 27 2005 @ 05:14 PM MDT
I understand exactly why Paul made the suggestion that he did and certainly don't think it is something to beat him up over. I won't speak for him because he did an excellent job speaking for himself and standing up to Heidi Strand for her snide, rude and at least some unfounded remarks.
My concern with the direction the zoo is taking is two-fold: First this is a park and we can only put so much into it. If people want expanding exhibits, perhaps the city needs to look at a special piece of property on which just to have a zoo. But the park, while still somewhat beautiful, is being destroyed with all this stockade fencing and some exhibits which simply don't come out for the public to see.
Second, there is not enough space, in my opinion, to adequately keep these animals.
Incidentally, your comment was that exotic exhibits were being replaced with indigenous ones. I didn't realize elk were indigenous to Wisconsin.
Elk and where they live....
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 27 2005 @ 06:12 PM MDT
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/caer/ce/eek/critter/mammal/elk.htm
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 07:36 AM MDT
Pure and simple, it was grandstanding. There is a process in place to deal with issues such as zoo fees, and circumventing the Parks Advisory Board showed Mr. Esslinger's lack of regard for the process of city government.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 12:07 PM MDT
Does anyone remember the "park" when families could actually use it for picnics, and watching the fireworks on the 4th of July? It was a peaceful beautiful passive park. Now there is ten pounds of sh-- in a five pound package.
We no longer use the park as citizens for what we would like but rather we pay for encampment people from outside the city to come and camp out dig up the lawn for camp fires and allow their dogs to run in the park, a priviledge by the way no local taxpayer has!
You also seem to have forgotten the promises made by the Zoological society that theier would never be a fee for these exhibits nor taxpayers dollars to maintain them, as they were to do the fund raising to pay for this grand idea. They lied and no one has ever held them up for this!!! Shame on the Parks director, City Manager and Council members for not being better stewarts of our money and making sure promises are kept!
Paul you keep doing the job you promised us you were going to do. Nit picking my aunt fanny, your the only one that asks any questions, demands answers and hold (or atleast trys to hold) any one accountable.
Hey Jim B, if you like taking the kids to the "zoo" great, I like sending mine to dance lessons, how about you pay for that too huh? Or maybe the city could build a dance studio and we can all pay for it.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 12:41 PM MDT
Excellent points!
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 12:31 PM MDT
I'm sorry, but Mr. Esslinger had all the time in the world to go through the Parks Advisory Board and other appropriate channels. Is this an idea he just came up with? Of course not- he has been against zoo fees since the start. He has had since the close of last summer to come forward with a proposal regarding zoo fees and to bring it through proper channels. Plain and simple, no matter what else you try to drag into this, this was abolute grandstanding.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 12:38 PM MDT
You are so full of yourself that you can't see the forest for the trees. Probably because of all the fencing in the park.
That fencing by the by was just approved two weeks ago. That's a big time difference from last last summer. Why don't you really listen to what people are saying instead of reading your own prejudices into everything this decent public servant tried to accomplish.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 12:41 PM MDT
He's against zoo fees?!
Better check your "facts." He voted for the implementation of the fees and the increase of them.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:53 PM MDT
Am wondering why the park director even bothered to have this fencing project approved by the city council? He never bothered to even mention to the "proper channels nor people" the last ugly fence he put up! You know the one the wonderful stockade fence that obstructs not only the view of the entire park but that of the water, oh and by the way the police department wasn't and isn't very impressed with it either as it obstructs their view of activity in the park they are charged with patroling.
But hey, all of you out there that are so knowledgeable about the history of this project, and are so concerned with proper procedure, will certainly overlook a minor safety flaw right?!
Wise up, we being taken down the yellow brick road and if you remeber OZ only exists in your mind. Or so the story goes.
Unless of course you happen to be the scarecrow in need of a brain?!!!!!
LIONS AND TIGERS AND BEARS OH BULL!!
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: admin on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:37 PM MDT
No grandstanding was involved here at all. True, there is a process however, the same could be said for obtaining bids or not waiving rules on certain ordinance change requests.
As we've heard in the past, time is sometimes of the essence when it comes to certain requests. Such was the case here with the Esslinger zoo fee request, given the date of when the zoo is opening.
I recall how Bryan Bain (before he was elected) and most of our current council members were completely in favor of the bids being waived on bathroom/concession area construction at the amphitheater, and one of the reasons touted for that move was timing.
Why is it that not following the process is perfectly acceptable to people in those cases, yet not when it is something Paul Esslinger wants?
So while people are busy complaining about Paul Esslinger and chastising him for not following the process, they need to speak out against other councilors to make sure that every process is adhered to and followed to the letter of the law.
- Cheryl Hentz
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 27 2005 @ 10:22 PM MDT
It doesn't matter if you petition the city for street repairs. They have had petitioned streets on the back burner for at least 5 years and longer. But they keep doing other streets that haven't been petitioned for and continue spending money on other projects that aren't necessary. They have it all backwards.
But Shirley Mattox asked the city manager last night about replacing some streets that had been pulled out of the plans with other streets and he gave some kind of story about no other streets had been engineered.
Hey City Manager Wollankg, how about some of those streets we've been asking for. It's about time. Maybe when you finally get aroud to doing them you people at city hall should make sure we don't have to pay the increased cost in construction. After all we were willing to pay it years ago and had the city done it's job properly then we would have our street done and at "then" prices, not today's or tomorrow's cost. Let's get with the program.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 08:41 AM MDT
Dear Mr. B:
I’m sorry if you think that being concerned about taxes and fees is negative. When I run for office, I tell voters that I will fight to keep taxes and fees as low as they can be, and I’ll continue to keep that promise.
You ask: “Don’t we have any better things to focus on than the zoo admission fees?” The City Council deals with several different topics at various times. I brought up the zoo admission fees at this time because of the waste of $57,000 for fencing for the elk exhibit. I don’t want people that come to the zoo to have to pay more money at the zoo than they have to. We aren’t going to get more people in the zoo because of an elk exhibit, or a bear exhibit (supposed to be coming next year.)
Another thing you need to take into consideration is that we will probably have to hire more park staff to take care of more exhibits. This means hiring someone and paying them a salary and benefits (probably around $60,000.) More exhibits also mean more food for the animals, more care for the animals, and more maintenance in the zoo (another $10,000 - $15,000 per year.) It’s not worth the costs.
You mentioned in your comments that you would like roads to be reconstructed; wouldn’t you rather have money going to roads than paying for more parks employees and the associated costs for exhibits?
You know, it’s funny, before the Council meeting on Tuesday; I received a call from someone that addressed the issues that you are talking about. In fact, he used the same words that you used. During my phone conversation with this person he said, “the terrace in front of my house continues to erode every year.” He also said “a truck comes down my street every year to fill in holes with black top.”
Could it be you Jim B that I spoke with?? I’m betting it wasn’t because the person that I talked to said that he really likes the things that I’m doing on the Council and that I should keep up the good work. This person never said anything about concerns of putting “negative spins” on things.
Mr. B: If it was you that I spoke with on the phone; the next time you call, please don’t sugar coat you comments. Please tell me ALL of you concerns, whether they be positive or negative. And please feel free to tell me the things that I’m doing well, AND the things that you feel that I’m doing wrong.
If it wasn’t you that I talked to on the phone, then my phone conversation, and the remarks that were posted on this site are just a very strange coincidence!
In any event, if you would like your road reconstructed, please take a petition around to your neighbors, or, give me a call and I’ll talk to the Public Works Dept. and I’ll see when your street is due to be done. If it’s not due to be done for a while, maybe your street can be bumped up a bit (if it is truly in terrible shape.)
Thanks for being involved with city politics, and thanks for voting for me!!
Sincerely,
Paul Esslinger
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 09:00 AM MDT
Kids like bears.
I think a bear exhibit would bring more people to the park.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 11:02 AM MDT
The little zoo had bears years ago and they were eventually done away with. If we are now going to try being a real zoo and the zoological society and Tom Stephany really give a damn about the animals, then perhaps we need to get a zoological director who is better equipped to handle these types of things. Mr. Stephany is a parks director, not a zoo director or zoo expert. Maybe he needs to decide exactly what he wants to be when he grows up. In the meantime give the park back to the people and the birds. Ms. Hentz had a good idea that if we plan to keep expanding the zoo maybe it needs to be done elsewhere so the people can have the park back.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:36 PM MDT
The exihibits scheduled to be added are within the current fenced in area. WE ARE NOT LOSING ANY MORE PARK SPACE. That seems to be a fact everyone wants to avoid.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:02 PM MDT
Good, because I still think kids like bears.
Bears will be good.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:30 PM MDT
Great. So we will have bears and wolves in the park. All that's missing is Goldilocks. Perhaps our parks director would like to see about that missing link so we could have a real show down there. This park is no place for an expanding zoo.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:59 PM MDT
But Esslinger wanted a Bay Beach there - which would take up a whole lot more of the park than a few bears.
Don't blame the nice bears.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:19 PM MDT
He did not want a Bay Beach type park in Menominee Park. He was proposing it for SOMEWHERE in the city but he never suggested it for the park. But it sure sounds like Parks Director Stephany wants to copy at least parts of that idea, and he IS wanting to do it in Menominee. Wait and see if there's not a ferris wheel there in a year or two. But before saying Esslinger wanted an amusement park in the park please have your facts straight.
But you know what? Even if he had suggested Menominee Park for an amusement park, at least an amusement park is still a park and not a zoo.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:35 PM MDT
From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary (www.m-w.com)
Main Entry: zoo
Pronunciation: 'zü
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural zoos
Etymology: short for zoological garden
1 a : ZOOLOGICAL GARDEN b : a collection of living animals usually for public display
2 : a place, situation, or group marked by crowding, confusion, or unrestrained behavior the convention was a zoo
Main Entry: zoological garden
Function: noun
: a garden or park where wild animals are kept for exhibition
So, a zoo is a PARK WITH ANIMALS (including bears - they are nice to look at)
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 06:07 PM MDT
Why would we want a "Bay Beach" in Oshkosh when you can drive to Green Bay? Isn't that the theory Paul used for not having a zoo. Why not drive to Green Bay. A little inconsistent wouldn't you say?
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 09:31 PM MDT
GREAT POINT!
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 07:12 AM MDT
Esslinger has never said we shouldn't have a zoo. Secondly if we want to use your argument, I would ask why we need an amphitheater when we have the PAC in Appleton, the Weidner and the Resch Center in Green Bay and the Bradley Center in Milwaukee. It's called trying to keep money in your own backyard and at the same time bring in outside tourism dollars, a concept you seem to be struggling with. Face it, you're not an Esslinger fan but I think we can live with that.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 08:39 AM MDT
No, I am for having things in Oshkosh so I do not have to drive. I was just pointing out the inconsistantcies in Paul's argument.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 08:48 AM MDT
And I hope I have pointed out that there are no inconsistencies in Esslinger's positions. There never have been. Perhaps you are confusing the message his critics spread about him with the facts, which are available by accessing past minutes of council meetings where his votes on every issue are recorded.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:11 AM MDT
People, People, where has the discussion gone to look at each item and make a decision based on actually merit and the publics ability to pay. There was also not too very long ago a great outcry from the mass media and people supporting TABOR to look at those items that were a duplication of
"services" I believe this would qualify for both agruments. It's thoughtless spending in each community, rather than pooling of resources for regional benefit, that has TABOR looming large.
I never thought I would be saying this, but I now understand why TABOR is gaining steam, bad decisions, and worse governance of our dollars.
Stop acting like spoiled children who think we must have, so we can be like the next door neighbor.
Use your head, really start to think, then why not try to do something unique that separates us from everyother community in Wisconsin. The downtown thing has been overdone, and it offers nothing new for possible tourism. Same old idea same amenities in each downtown throughout Wisconsin.
Am I wrong????
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:28 PM MDT
Then why was additional fencing needed to the tune of $57,000?
And if what you say is accurate then it is even more cruel to the animals because they will have even less space.
Either way this is a bad idea.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 08:21 AM MDT
Cheryl, Paul, & Anonymous,
Interesting discussion with a lot of varying views. I don't feel like I was "beating upon him" at all. He is an elected official, and should be up for criticism just like the rest of our elected officials. Perhaps my post title was a little harsh, and for that I apologize. The guts of my post I believe are still very valid.
It is no coincidence Paul that the phone call you got on tuesday was so similar to the post because it was me who called. It is amazing how two people can walk away from a conversation with a completely different view of said conversation. I called you to express my concern about the zoo fees being a very small issue compared to street repair. I started the conversation off by telling you I voted for you. At no time did I say I thought you were doing a good job. I really did not say one way or the other my thoughts on your job! It was a pleasant conversation and you were open to listening to my point of view which I appreciate. You immediately ventured to guess that your proposal would be voted down and the zoological society was going to rip on you hard(which makes me wonder more why you bothered). You also explained your feelings on the increased costs that would be incurred by the exhibit expansion which you outlined in a previous post on this thread. Then you quickly changed the subject to the fact that only 22% of the people voted. Trying to stay on the subject I expressed my thoughts on needing to focus on bigger issues within the city. You then went into how the zoo was ruining the park, and how it used to be an open space that everyone could use, and you couldnt see throughout the whole park. At that point I mentioned that my family would use the park if the goose crap wasnt so bad. We discussed the need for street repairs and my specific concerns for my street.
After our conversation I learned a little more about this issue that you did not care to share. the fact that the zoo fingerprint has not changed due to all of this development within the zoo. The fact that you did not go through the proper channels to make this change. The fact that you were basing your decision on on a city report of 75 comment cards from zoo patrons. As much as I felt Ms. Strand's presentation was poor, she did point out some research that the zoo society has done which you did not take into consideration. And is it indeed true that you originally voted for the fee increase?
With this information in hand I wrote my post. I stand by my original comments of this is a non-issue. If we had 50,000 visitors to the zoo, should you base your decision to bring this issue back up on 75 comment cards?
Never did I sugar coat our conversation. To me it was neither negative or positive, simply a consituent voicing their opinion on a specific issue. I felt no need to go into other issues at the time. If you look at my history of posts, the negative spin is something I have mentioned and been concerned with for a long time.
This us vs. them attitude has got to stop in Oshkosh. It seems too many people have blind support for certain council members just because they are on the perceived same side. I am not going to give these people a name as many others feel necessary, but I support ideas and policies. Some only seem to support specific council members ideas. If it comes from the other "side" it can't possibly be good.
As far as petitioning the city for my street, I have attempted to contact the homeowners on my street. Unfortunately, my street is made up of about 50% homeowners, and 50% rental properties. The majority of homeowners were interested in petitioning the city. The rental owners I was actually able to get in contact wanted nothing to do with increasing their taxes with an additional bill to fix the street. Incidentally, I own two properties on my street. I would be paying double on my taxes to get my street fixed, which is something I am more than willing to do!
Jim B.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 08:49 AM MDT
For some reason you have to take a side in this city. If you try to make a point supporting Heidi Strand you are blasted by Cheryl and Paul and if you support Cheryl and Paul you receive the wrath of Strand and Company. Some of us are able to look at each issue and make our own judgement.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 09:04 AM MDT
A little info regarding Heidi Strand:
She is the owner of Blue Door Consulting, a P.R. and communications company, basically run out of her car trunk!
This misguided individual is also under contract with the Oshkosh School District to give guidance for communications with the district.
I'm outraged that my tax dollars are going to this person! She's giving advise on public relations for our school district??
Is this what you want our school kids taught about public relations Heidi? If you disagree with an elected official, go up and blast them into the next zip code, instead of going up and outlining your disagreement? Heidi is a disgrace to the school district, and she should be fired from her contract with the school district.
What other companies are being disgraced by Heidi Strand??
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:51 AM MDT
Excellent point about Heidi Strand and her antics. The other thing that you might want to consider when looking at her credibility is the various things she's done in just the last ten years. When you look at the different companies or organizations she's been with it seems she stays nowhere for very long. But you're right. She sure didn't display very good PR skills at the council meeting Tuesday night. Is that how she coducts herself with those she disagrees with? If so the school district should rethink using this woman for any more work. She is a disgrace to the district and obviously doesn't care about the taxpayers paying her salary. Cancel the contract.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 02:07 PM MDT
I hate to say it, because I know I'll get blasted for it, but Blue Door Consulting is a professionally run organization that has done some really helpful things for the school district. They have been organizing focus groups of volunteer citizens to help figure out what it is that people in the community would like to have more accessible from the district, be it calenders, lunch menus, class info etc. They have also been involved with redesigning the OASD web site to make it more user/student/parent/teacher friendly.
Whether she agrees with Mr. Esslinger or not should not call into question her abilities to complete the job as assigned (through a process of competitive bidding, I believe) by the school district. I think Heidi is doing a great job for the school district, and believe that her personal opinions and her expression thereof does not disqualify her from being the reciepient of a government contract. If anyone who ever voiced opposition to a governing body was retaliated against by having a government contract revoked, as many are suggesting, that would raise concern. That is Soviet style politics at their best.
She took some shots at Paul, I'll be the first to admit, but Paul has taken his shots at others over the years too. The suggestion that her disagreement with Mr. Esslinger shows disrespect for taxpayers is ludicris- she has every right to disagree with any city councilor she wants to. That doesn't show disrespect, it shows she is exercising her right to free speech. Maybe she brought some of this on herself, but I don't think it warrants advocating this frighteningly retaliatory political stance.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 02:17 PM MDT
It is one thing to disagree, quite another to launch personal attacks when pointing out your disagreements. She crossed the line. And no, it should not have anything to do with her contract with OASD.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 02:52 PM MDT
But on this site, there was a long discussion about letting citizens say whatever you want. Now she can't, unless she agrees with Paul.
What would the bears think?
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 03:01 PM MDT
You can disagree without making a personal attack.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 08:53 PM MDT
I agree that she crossed the line. The reason it is relative to her work witht he school district is the manner in which she presented herself. She is a PR person and displayed a complete lack of class and professionalism. Both of which are representative of someone who works in PR.
P.S. There are no bears here to render an opinion, so your question about what they might think is a moot point.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:45 AM MDT
I don't think it was only Paul and Cheryl talking about Heidi Strand so why are you singling them out? Please get real.
After last nights council meeting I am starting to wonder if Paul has lost his perspective. I voted for the guy but was a little concerned about the ongoing negative spin he puts on just about every issue. Don't we have better things to focus on than the zoo admission fees? This is a non-issue!!! The plan has been in place for a while but Paul thinks it is necessary to bring it up a week or so before the zoo opens. I take the kids to the zoo probably 3-4 times a year. I buy a family pass to support the zoo for $12.00. It isnt in competition with the N.E.W. Zoo or Milwaukee's Zoo. It is a nice place to visit a few times in the Summer. The plan to replace exotic species with indigenous is a good one!
I believe the focus should be on street repairs and development. Issues that are much more pertinent to citizens in this city. Why are we wasting time at council meetings on these types of issues. I listen to this discussion and cringe as I think that any day now truck #48 will be coming down my pot-holed road to "fill in" the holes with black top. We see this guy every year, and it does absolutely nothing for the street. I cringe at the thought that my terrace in front of my house continues to erode every year, and the apron has standing water in it 60% of the time.
Is it grandstanding on his part as Ms. Strand mentioned last night. Or just a guy who is nit picking every issue he can to seem to be the "people's" candidate. Well Paul, this person is tired of the negative spin on things that make Oshkosh what it is, and a decent place to live.
Let's get our priorities straight here!
Jim B.
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: admin on Wednesday, April 27 2005 @ 05:14 PM MDT
I understand exactly why Paul made the suggestion that he did and certainly don't think it is something to beat him up over. I won't speak for him because he did an excellent job speaking for himself and standing up to Heidi Strand for her snide, rude and at least some unfounded remarks.
My concern with the direction the zoo is taking is two-fold: First this is a park and we can only put so much into it. If people want expanding exhibits, perhaps the city needs to look at a special piece of property on which just to have a zoo. But the park, while still somewhat beautiful, is being destroyed with all this stockade fencing and some exhibits which simply don't come out for the public to see.
Second, there is not enough space, in my opinion, to adequately keep these animals.
Incidentally, your comment was that exotic exhibits were being replaced with indigenous ones. I didn't realize elk were indigenous to Wisconsin.
Elk and where they live....
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 27 2005 @ 06:12 PM MDT
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/caer/ce/eek/critter/mammal/elk.htm
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 07:36 AM MDT
Pure and simple, it was grandstanding. There is a process in place to deal with issues such as zoo fees, and circumventing the Parks Advisory Board showed Mr. Esslinger's lack of regard for the process of city government.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 12:07 PM MDT
Does anyone remember the "park" when families could actually use it for picnics, and watching the fireworks on the 4th of July? It was a peaceful beautiful passive park. Now there is ten pounds of sh-- in a five pound package.
We no longer use the park as citizens for what we would like but rather we pay for encampment people from outside the city to come and camp out dig up the lawn for camp fires and allow their dogs to run in the park, a priviledge by the way no local taxpayer has!
You also seem to have forgotten the promises made by the Zoological society that theier would never be a fee for these exhibits nor taxpayers dollars to maintain them, as they were to do the fund raising to pay for this grand idea. They lied and no one has ever held them up for this!!! Shame on the Parks director, City Manager and Council members for not being better stewarts of our money and making sure promises are kept!
Paul you keep doing the job you promised us you were going to do. Nit picking my aunt fanny, your the only one that asks any questions, demands answers and hold (or atleast trys to hold) any one accountable.
Hey Jim B, if you like taking the kids to the "zoo" great, I like sending mine to dance lessons, how about you pay for that too huh? Or maybe the city could build a dance studio and we can all pay for it.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 12:41 PM MDT
Excellent points!
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 12:31 PM MDT
I'm sorry, but Mr. Esslinger had all the time in the world to go through the Parks Advisory Board and other appropriate channels. Is this an idea he just came up with? Of course not- he has been against zoo fees since the start. He has had since the close of last summer to come forward with a proposal regarding zoo fees and to bring it through proper channels. Plain and simple, no matter what else you try to drag into this, this was abolute grandstanding.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 12:38 PM MDT
You are so full of yourself that you can't see the forest for the trees. Probably because of all the fencing in the park.
That fencing by the by was just approved two weeks ago. That's a big time difference from last last summer. Why don't you really listen to what people are saying instead of reading your own prejudices into everything this decent public servant tried to accomplish.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 12:41 PM MDT
He's against zoo fees?!
Better check your "facts." He voted for the implementation of the fees and the increase of them.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:53 PM MDT
Am wondering why the park director even bothered to have this fencing project approved by the city council? He never bothered to even mention to the "proper channels nor people" the last ugly fence he put up! You know the one the wonderful stockade fence that obstructs not only the view of the entire park but that of the water, oh and by the way the police department wasn't and isn't very impressed with it either as it obstructs their view of activity in the park they are charged with patroling.
But hey, all of you out there that are so knowledgeable about the history of this project, and are so concerned with proper procedure, will certainly overlook a minor safety flaw right?!
Wise up, we being taken down the yellow brick road and if you remeber OZ only exists in your mind. Or so the story goes.
Unless of course you happen to be the scarecrow in need of a brain?!!!!!
LIONS AND TIGERS AND BEARS OH BULL!!
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: admin on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 01:37 PM MDT
No grandstanding was involved here at all. True, there is a process however, the same could be said for obtaining bids or not waiving rules on certain ordinance change requests.
As we've heard in the past, time is sometimes of the essence when it comes to certain requests. Such was the case here with the Esslinger zoo fee request, given the date of when the zoo is opening.
I recall how Bryan Bain (before he was elected) and most of our current council members were completely in favor of the bids being waived on bathroom/concession area construction at the amphitheater, and one of the reasons touted for that move was timing.
Why is it that not following the process is perfectly acceptable to people in those cases, yet not when it is something Paul Esslinger wants?
So while people are busy complaining about Paul Esslinger and chastising him for not following the process, they need to speak out against other councilors to make sure that every process is adhered to and followed to the letter of the law.
- Cheryl Hentz
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 27 2005 @ 10:22 PM MDT
It doesn't matter if you petition the city for street repairs. They have had petitioned streets on the back burner for at least 5 years and longer. But they keep doing other streets that haven't been petitioned for and continue spending money on other projects that aren't necessary. They have it all backwards.
But Shirley Mattox asked the city manager last night about replacing some streets that had been pulled out of the plans with other streets and he gave some kind of story about no other streets had been engineered.
Hey City Manager Wollankg, how about some of those streets we've been asking for. It's about time. Maybe when you finally get aroud to doing them you people at city hall should make sure we don't have to pay the increased cost in construction. After all we were willing to pay it years ago and had the city done it's job properly then we would have our street done and at "then" prices, not today's or tomorrow's cost. Let's get with the program.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 08:41 AM MDT
Dear Mr. B:
I’m sorry if you think that being concerned about taxes and fees is negative. When I run for office, I tell voters that I will fight to keep taxes and fees as low as they can be, and I’ll continue to keep that promise.
You ask: “Don’t we have any better things to focus on than the zoo admission fees?” The City Council deals with several different topics at various times. I brought up the zoo admission fees at this time because of the waste of $57,000 for fencing for the elk exhibit. I don’t want people that come to the zoo to have to pay more money at the zoo than they have to. We aren’t going to get more people in the zoo because of an elk exhibit, or a bear exhibit (supposed to be coming next year.)
Another thing you need to take into consideration is that we will probably have to hire more park staff to take care of more exhibits. This means hiring someone and paying them a salary and benefits (probably around $60,000.) More exhibits also mean more food for the animals, more care for the animals, and more maintenance in the zoo (another $10,000 - $15,000 per year.) It’s not worth the costs.
You mentioned in your comments that you would like roads to be reconstructed; wouldn’t you rather have money going to roads than paying for more parks employees and the associated costs for exhibits?
You know, it’s funny, before the Council meeting on Tuesday; I received a call from someone that addressed the issues that you are talking about. In fact, he used the same words that you used. During my phone conversation with this person he said, “the terrace in front of my house continues to erode every year.” He also said “a truck comes down my street every year to fill in holes with black top.”
Could it be you Jim B that I spoke with?? I’m betting it wasn’t because the person that I talked to said that he really likes the things that I’m doing on the Council and that I should keep up the good work. This person never said anything about concerns of putting “negative spins” on things.
Mr. B: If it was you that I spoke with on the phone; the next time you call, please don’t sugar coat you comments. Please tell me ALL of you concerns, whether they be positive or negative. And please feel free to tell me the things that I’m doing well, AND the things that you feel that I’m doing wrong.
If it wasn’t you that I talked to on the phone, then my phone conversation, and the remarks that were posted on this site are just a very strange coincidence!
In any event, if you would like your road reconstructed, please take a petition around to your neighbors, or, give me a call and I’ll talk to the Public Works Dept. and I’ll see when your street is due to be done. If it’s not due to be done for a while, maybe your street can be bumped up a bit (if it is truly in terrible shape.)
Thanks for being involved with city politics, and thanks for voting for me!!
Sincerely,
Paul Esslinger
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 09:00 AM MDT
Kids like bears.
I think a bear exhibit would bring more people to the park.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 11:02 AM MDT
The little zoo had bears years ago and they were eventually done away with. If we are now going to try being a real zoo and the zoological society and Tom Stephany really give a damn about the animals, then perhaps we need to get a zoological director who is better equipped to handle these types of things. Mr. Stephany is a parks director, not a zoo director or zoo expert. Maybe he needs to decide exactly what he wants to be when he grows up. In the meantime give the park back to the people and the birds. Ms. Hentz had a good idea that if we plan to keep expanding the zoo maybe it needs to be done elsewhere so the people can have the park back.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 02:36 PM MDT
The exihibits scheduled to be added are within the current fenced in area. WE ARE NOT LOSING ANY MORE PARK SPACE. That seems to be a fact everyone wants to avoid.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:02 PM MDT
Good, because I still think kids like bears.
Bears will be good.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:30 PM MDT
Great. So we will have bears and wolves in the park. All that's missing is Goldilocks. Perhaps our parks director would like to see about that missing link so we could have a real show down there. This park is no place for an expanding zoo.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:59 PM MDT
But Esslinger wanted a Bay Beach there - which would take up a whole lot more of the park than a few bears.
Don't blame the nice bears.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:19 PM MDT
He did not want a Bay Beach type park in Menominee Park. He was proposing it for SOMEWHERE in the city but he never suggested it for the park. But it sure sounds like Parks Director Stephany wants to copy at least parts of that idea, and he IS wanting to do it in Menominee. Wait and see if there's not a ferris wheel there in a year or two. But before saying Esslinger wanted an amusement park in the park please have your facts straight.
But you know what? Even if he had suggested Menominee Park for an amusement park, at least an amusement park is still a park and not a zoo.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 04:35 PM MDT
From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary (www.m-w.com)
Main Entry: zoo
Pronunciation: 'zü
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural zoos
Etymology: short for zoological garden
1 a : ZOOLOGICAL GARDEN b : a collection of living animals usually for public display
2 : a place, situation, or group marked by crowding, confusion, or unrestrained behavior the convention was a zoo
Main Entry: zoological garden
Function: noun
: a garden or park where wild animals are kept for exhibition
So, a zoo is a PARK WITH ANIMALS (including bears - they are nice to look at)
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 06:07 PM MDT
Why would we want a "Bay Beach" in Oshkosh when you can drive to Green Bay? Isn't that the theory Paul used for not having a zoo. Why not drive to Green Bay. A little inconsistent wouldn't you say?
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 09:31 PM MDT
GREAT POINT!
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 07:12 AM MDT
Esslinger has never said we shouldn't have a zoo. Secondly if we want to use your argument, I would ask why we need an amphitheater when we have the PAC in Appleton, the Weidner and the Resch Center in Green Bay and the Bradley Center in Milwaukee. It's called trying to keep money in your own backyard and at the same time bring in outside tourism dollars, a concept you seem to be struggling with. Face it, you're not an Esslinger fan but I think we can live with that.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 08:39 AM MDT
No, I am for having things in Oshkosh so I do not have to drive. I was just pointing out the inconsistantcies in Paul's argument.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 08:48 AM MDT
And I hope I have pointed out that there are no inconsistencies in Esslinger's positions. There never have been. Perhaps you are confusing the message his critics spread about him with the facts, which are available by accessing past minutes of council meetings where his votes on every issue are recorded.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:11 AM MDT
People, People, where has the discussion gone to look at each item and make a decision based on actually merit and the publics ability to pay. There was also not too very long ago a great outcry from the mass media and people supporting TABOR to look at those items that were a duplication of
"services" I believe this would qualify for both agruments. It's thoughtless spending in each community, rather than pooling of resources for regional benefit, that has TABOR looming large.
I never thought I would be saying this, but I now understand why TABOR is gaining steam, bad decisions, and worse governance of our dollars.
Stop acting like spoiled children who think we must have, so we can be like the next door neighbor.
Use your head, really start to think, then why not try to do something unique that separates us from everyother community in Wisconsin. The downtown thing has been overdone, and it offers nothing new for possible tourism. Same old idea same amenities in each downtown throughout Wisconsin.
Am I wrong????
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 03:28 PM MDT
Then why was additional fencing needed to the tune of $57,000?
And if what you say is accurate then it is even more cruel to the animals because they will have even less space.
Either way this is a bad idea.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 08:21 AM MDT
Cheryl, Paul, & Anonymous,
Interesting discussion with a lot of varying views. I don't feel like I was "beating upon him" at all. He is an elected official, and should be up for criticism just like the rest of our elected officials. Perhaps my post title was a little harsh, and for that I apologize. The guts of my post I believe are still very valid.
It is no coincidence Paul that the phone call you got on tuesday was so similar to the post because it was me who called. It is amazing how two people can walk away from a conversation with a completely different view of said conversation. I called you to express my concern about the zoo fees being a very small issue compared to street repair. I started the conversation off by telling you I voted for you. At no time did I say I thought you were doing a good job. I really did not say one way or the other my thoughts on your job! It was a pleasant conversation and you were open to listening to my point of view which I appreciate. You immediately ventured to guess that your proposal would be voted down and the zoological society was going to rip on you hard(which makes me wonder more why you bothered). You also explained your feelings on the increased costs that would be incurred by the exhibit expansion which you outlined in a previous post on this thread. Then you quickly changed the subject to the fact that only 22% of the people voted. Trying to stay on the subject I expressed my thoughts on needing to focus on bigger issues within the city. You then went into how the zoo was ruining the park, and how it used to be an open space that everyone could use, and you couldnt see throughout the whole park. At that point I mentioned that my family would use the park if the goose crap wasnt so bad. We discussed the need for street repairs and my specific concerns for my street.
After our conversation I learned a little more about this issue that you did not care to share. the fact that the zoo fingerprint has not changed due to all of this development within the zoo. The fact that you did not go through the proper channels to make this change. The fact that you were basing your decision on on a city report of 75 comment cards from zoo patrons. As much as I felt Ms. Strand's presentation was poor, she did point out some research that the zoo society has done which you did not take into consideration. And is it indeed true that you originally voted for the fee increase?
With this information in hand I wrote my post. I stand by my original comments of this is a non-issue. If we had 50,000 visitors to the zoo, should you base your decision to bring this issue back up on 75 comment cards?
Never did I sugar coat our conversation. To me it was neither negative or positive, simply a consituent voicing their opinion on a specific issue. I felt no need to go into other issues at the time. If you look at my history of posts, the negative spin is something I have mentioned and been concerned with for a long time.
This us vs. them attitude has got to stop in Oshkosh. It seems too many people have blind support for certain council members just because they are on the perceived same side. I am not going to give these people a name as many others feel necessary, but I support ideas and policies. Some only seem to support specific council members ideas. If it comes from the other "side" it can't possibly be good.
As far as petitioning the city for my street, I have attempted to contact the homeowners on my street. Unfortunately, my street is made up of about 50% homeowners, and 50% rental properties. The majority of homeowners were interested in petitioning the city. The rental owners I was actually able to get in contact wanted nothing to do with increasing their taxes with an additional bill to fix the street. Incidentally, I own two properties on my street. I would be paying double on my taxes to get my street fixed, which is something I am more than willing to do!
Jim B.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 08:49 AM MDT
For some reason you have to take a side in this city. If you try to make a point supporting Heidi Strand you are blasted by Cheryl and Paul and if you support Cheryl and Paul you receive the wrath of Strand and Company. Some of us are able to look at each issue and make our own judgement.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 09:04 AM MDT
A little info regarding Heidi Strand:
She is the owner of Blue Door Consulting, a P.R. and communications company, basically run out of her car trunk!
This misguided individual is also under contract with the Oshkosh School District to give guidance for communications with the district.
I'm outraged that my tax dollars are going to this person! She's giving advise on public relations for our school district??
Is this what you want our school kids taught about public relations Heidi? If you disagree with an elected official, go up and blast them into the next zip code, instead of going up and outlining your disagreement? Heidi is a disgrace to the school district, and she should be fired from her contract with the school district.
What other companies are being disgraced by Heidi Strand??
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:51 AM MDT
Excellent point about Heidi Strand and her antics. The other thing that you might want to consider when looking at her credibility is the various things she's done in just the last ten years. When you look at the different companies or organizations she's been with it seems she stays nowhere for very long. But you're right. She sure didn't display very good PR skills at the council meeting Tuesday night. Is that how she coducts herself with those she disagrees with? If so the school district should rethink using this woman for any more work. She is a disgrace to the district and obviously doesn't care about the taxpayers paying her salary. Cancel the contract.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 02:07 PM MDT
I hate to say it, because I know I'll get blasted for it, but Blue Door Consulting is a professionally run organization that has done some really helpful things for the school district. They have been organizing focus groups of volunteer citizens to help figure out what it is that people in the community would like to have more accessible from the district, be it calenders, lunch menus, class info etc. They have also been involved with redesigning the OASD web site to make it more user/student/parent/teacher friendly.
Whether she agrees with Mr. Esslinger or not should not call into question her abilities to complete the job as assigned (through a process of competitive bidding, I believe) by the school district. I think Heidi is doing a great job for the school district, and believe that her personal opinions and her expression thereof does not disqualify her from being the reciepient of a government contract. If anyone who ever voiced opposition to a governing body was retaliated against by having a government contract revoked, as many are suggesting, that would raise concern. That is Soviet style politics at their best.
She took some shots at Paul, I'll be the first to admit, but Paul has taken his shots at others over the years too. The suggestion that her disagreement with Mr. Esslinger shows disrespect for taxpayers is ludicris- she has every right to disagree with any city councilor she wants to. That doesn't show disrespect, it shows she is exercising her right to free speech. Maybe she brought some of this on herself, but I don't think it warrants advocating this frighteningly retaliatory political stance.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 02:17 PM MDT
It is one thing to disagree, quite another to launch personal attacks when pointing out your disagreements. She crossed the line. And no, it should not have anything to do with her contract with OASD.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 02:52 PM MDT
But on this site, there was a long discussion about letting citizens say whatever you want. Now she can't, unless she agrees with Paul.
What would the bears think?
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 03:01 PM MDT
You can disagree without making a personal attack.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 08:53 PM MDT
I agree that she crossed the line. The reason it is relative to her work witht he school district is the manner in which she presented herself. She is a PR person and displayed a complete lack of class and professionalism. Both of which are representative of someone who works in PR.
P.S. There are no bears here to render an opinion, so your question about what they might think is a moot point.
Has Esslinger lost it?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:45 AM MDT
I don't think it was only Paul and Cheryl talking about Heidi Strand so why are you singling them out? Please get real.
posted by Cheryl Hentz at 8:37 AM
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