Becker wants votes from one district nullified
The Oshkosh Northwestern is reporting this afternoon that Oshkosh Area School District Board of Education incumbent Dan Becker wants the votes cast last Tuesday at St. John’s Evangelical Lutheran Church on N. Main Street tossed out – all 262 of them.
In a school board election that see-sawed for much of the evening, Becker ended up losing to fellow incumbent Amy Weinsheim by eight votes, prompting him to launch a recount – something he surely is entitled to, and I’m glad he asked for it. But now he is asking that the votes from District 8 – which, according to the Northwestern, is equivalent to 3 percent of the votes cast in the city – be nullified because the ballot bag used to transport the ballots from the voting precinct to city hall after the polls closed, was not signed by the chief election inspector. Becker was quoted by the Northwestern as saying he has “no reasonable assurance” that the votes came from the church.
Now, I like Dan Becker – always have – but I am trying to think this through with a calm head and common-sense. Let's think about this: If the ballots did not come from St. John’s where did they come from? And if they came from somewhere else, then where did the ballots from St. John’s go to? More importantly, in the grand scheme of things does it really matter where they came from? After all, one can take a quick look at the ballots and see that they were cast in last Tuesday’s election. They were figured into the totals right after the polls closed, so this is hardly a case where they were found days or weeks after the fact and could have been tampered with during that time, etc.
The school district board of canvassers, which is conducting the official recount, is said to be making a decision on Wednesday as to whether or not to count the votes. The hope is that between now and then District 8’s chief election inspector can attest to delivering the ballot bag to city hall.
I personally hope they allow the votes to count. If not, the 262 people who took time out of their day to exercise their civic responsibility by voting will be disenfranchised by the decision. Not only will their votes be nullified but their voices in their government will be silenced. Secondly, the vote totals in every other race could change, depending on if the ballots are thrown out altogether or just the school board votes are tossed.
If the ballots are nullified in their entirety, it probably won't affect the overall election outcome, but all candidates' totals surely will change, and it could change the positions in which some winners placed. Also to nullify the ballot in its entirety would dramatically affect the outcome of the County Board Race for District 17; after all, most if not all of the votes for that district come from St. John’s.
But even if it would only be the school board votes that got tossed, it's a gamble for Becker: he could win; but it's also entirely possible he would lose – and maybe by more than he lost originally.
Certainly we want every election to run as smoothly as possible and be as error- and problem-free as they can be. We also have heard arguments from people during the last week that we want to make sure every vote is counted. I agree again. And that is exactly why I believe these votes should not be nullified, the recount should continue with these votes included and let the people’s choice win.
- Cheryl
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: admin on Wednesday, April 12 2006 @ 08:39 AM MDT
After hearing testimony from the District 8 election official (St. John's Lutheran Church) and getting a recommendation from its legal counsel, the Board of Canvassers late Tuesday did apparently allow the 262 District 8 votes to be included in vote totals from the April 4 election. Incumbent candidate Dan Becker objected, his objection was noted in the recount records and the recount continued.
See the Oshkosh Northwestern online for the complete update...
http://www.thenorthwestern.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060412/OSH01/60412004
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: tthiel on Wednesday, April 12 2006 @ 10:20 PM MDT
I spent the entire day at the recount (to support Amy Weinsheim -- play with her baby while she was looking at ballots and look at ballots for her while she was feeding her baby)
Dan objects everytime a ballot is discarded because there are not 2 signatures from poll workers, saying it is inconsistent to discard ballots that don't have the required signature but not throw out all the ballots in the bag that doesn't have the required signature (of course he started the whole invalidate the ballot because only one poll worker signed) so Mrs. Weinsheim is pretty much forced to do the same. All the ballots in the bag in question DID have the required 2 signatures from poll workers.
He also tried to have absentee ballots from an entire ward "invalidated" (not sure if that is the right term but basically not counted) because the poll worker did not write ABS next to the absentee voter's name in the poll book. The attorney said it was not required even though in most of the other wards the poll workers had written ABS next to the voters name in their book. The board of canvassers counted all these ballots but why would anyone want to throw out an entire ward of absentee ballots? Before you answer think about whether that would be your answer if it was your absentee ballot they threw out. They did name those people so it could be yours...
I really can't figure out what this recount is about but it is certainly NOT about making sure every vote is counted. Which is what the Mattox - Tower recount was about, they were very civil to each other and basically just asked that certain ballots be re-created because either the oval wasn't completely colored in or there was an x in the box or it was just too light.
That happened today too but a lot of the time was Mr. Becker objecting and trying to have ballots "thrown out". The errors are simple human errors, you will have mistakes when you have humans doing this, there is no fraud or gross irregularities.
An absentee voter signs his or her name on the witness line on the ENVELOPE and the witness signs below the voters signature and that ballot shouldn't be counted? Why if you want every vote to be counted would you want to throw out a vote on such a technicality. The board of canvassers did not throw the ballots out but why would someone ask them to in the first place? NOT because they wanted every vote counted.
I'm sure there will be some good spin on this one. Can't wait to hear it.
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: L Schaffer on Friday, April 14 2006 @ 08:40 PM MDT
The only reason you want Amy back on the school board is because she is a yes person, what ever the teachers want, Amy says yes. When a school budget that increases over 30 million dollars in 5 years and the school district still is no better at teaching our kids something has to be done. In a very short time this school district is going to be facing a very real budget crisis and we don't need people on this school board that gives into every whim that the teachers want. I know Mrs. Thiel will disagree with me on this one, but she is married to a teacher and that is alright with me that she disagrees. As for the people that were incharge of the voting places and if they can not do a very simple job as to make sure they sign there names in the proper spot, then they should be replaced. There is no excuse for shoddy work.
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: tthiel on Sunday, April 16 2006 @ 08:33 PM MDT
Not that I agree with you Mr. Schaffer, that the pollworkers do shoddy work because I don't after 13-15 hours on the job anyone is likely to forget something. The real point is should 262 people's votes be THROWN OUT because a pollworker forgot to sign a bag, especially when all of the ballots inside the bag were signed by TWO pollworkers? Should your vote not count because you voted absentee and signed your envelope with a PENCIL? Should your vote not count because you voted absentee and the pollworker didn't write ABS next to your name in the pollbook (mind you the number on the envelope and the number next to your name do match)? These are the types of things Mr. Becker wanted ballots invalidated for. I say this recount in NOT about making sure all votes are counted, it is about voter suppression and trying to throw out as many votes as possible! That is just WRONG!
It doesn't matter who I want on the board, what matters is who the voters elected and it is wrong to try and throw out votes on a technicality!
Teresa Thiel
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: admin on Sunday, April 16 2006 @ 08:40 PM MDT
I agree with Mrs. Thiel 100 percent on these points. I have a question though that maybe Mrs. Thiel can answer.
Do you know why during the recount they did not use one of the newer machines that would read ovals in marker and/or in pen, rather than using one of the older ones that just read ovals from markers? I heard this forced several ballots to be recreated and that only toward the end of the recount was one of the newer machines brought in. Seems like had they done that in the beginning, some time and effort could have been saved.
- Cheryl
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: tthiel on Monday, April 17 2006 @ 11:36 AM MDT
I didn't hear this first hand but someone told me when they asked how the machine was chosen the City Clerk said 4 is my favorite number... so they got machine #4. They didn't actually use a new machine, they did bring it in but Mr. Becker, after demanding a new machine... decided not to go with it because if they had they would have had to resubmit all the ballots in that district into the new machine (and it was one of the districts that had the most ballots). After that district Mr. Becker elected to go with the "status quo". The main reason for so many recreations was the use of ball point pen at one of the polling places. No one was sure how the pen came to be there, probably a voter using it and leaving it there but the new machine could read it the recount machine could not so a number of ballots had to be recreated. That is why they only want those markers to be used, you never know when a recount may occur.
Teresa Thiel
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: admin on Monday, April 17 2006 @ 08:16 PM MDT
Teresa, thanks for your insight on the voting machine. I appreciate it.
Late today the vote from last week's recount was certified and incumbent Amy Weinsheim was declared the winner over fellow incumbent Dan Becker by a total of 11 votes. That is three votes more than the unofficial total declared on election night two weeks ago. According to the Oshkosh Northwestern, Mr. Becker will not pursue any further challenges to the certified election results.
Congratulations to Mrs. Weinsheim on her victory and hats off to both she and Mr. Becker for a hard fought battle and for trying to exercise as much patience as possible and enduring the very stressful times of the past 13 days.
- Cheryl Hentz
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: tthiel on Monday, April 17 2006 @ 10:13 PM MDT
Unofficially, I overheard someone say they counted all the objections during the recount...
Mr. Becker 207 objections
Mrs. Weinsheim 15 objections
Once the official minutes are prepared and posted you can count them for yourself.
My hat is definitely off to Amy for the way she handled herself during the recount.
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: admin on Monday, April 17 2006 @ 10:20 PM MDT
If those numbers are accurate, and I have no reason to believe they are not, that is a tremendous disparity in the number of objections raised by each candidate.
I await your providing us with the official minutes.
- Cheryl
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: tthiel on Tuesday, April 18 2006 @ 09:22 AM MDT
I should have the minutes by the end of the day today, I will e-mail them to you, Cheryl, so you can post them.
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: L Schaffer on Tuesday, April 18 2006 @ 11:21 AM MDT
Courts throw out convictions because of a technicality. Cases coming before the court system are dismissed because of a technicality. Banks refuse a loan because of something on a credit report that is false, another technicality. In the last presidential election thousands of abentee ballets that came from our troups from over sea's not counted because of arriving late, another technicality. Does this make it right, no. To say mistakes will be made because of people are human, that alone is a slap in the face. To just ignore the tech. mistakes is also wrong. I wonder the shoe was on the other foot of the canditate if those technicality mistakes would have come into play, we will never know unless it would happen again.
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: tthiel on Tuesday, April 18 2006 @ 05:10 PM MDT
The lawyer still has the minutes I should get a copy sometime tomorrow.
Teresa
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: tthiel on Wednesday, April 19 2006 @ 05:18 PM MDT
I have sent the minutes to Cheryl for posting. Once they are posted and people have read them I would be interested in knowing what people think this recount was really about... counting all votes or suppressing votes?
Teresa Thiel
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: admin on Wednesday, April 19 2006 @ 05:29 PM MDT
I just posted them now Teresa. Thanks again!
- Cheryl
In a school board election that see-sawed for much of the evening, Becker ended up losing to fellow incumbent Amy Weinsheim by eight votes, prompting him to launch a recount – something he surely is entitled to, and I’m glad he asked for it. But now he is asking that the votes from District 8 – which, according to the Northwestern, is equivalent to 3 percent of the votes cast in the city – be nullified because the ballot bag used to transport the ballots from the voting precinct to city hall after the polls closed, was not signed by the chief election inspector. Becker was quoted by the Northwestern as saying he has “no reasonable assurance” that the votes came from the church.
Now, I like Dan Becker – always have – but I am trying to think this through with a calm head and common-sense. Let's think about this: If the ballots did not come from St. John’s where did they come from? And if they came from somewhere else, then where did the ballots from St. John’s go to? More importantly, in the grand scheme of things does it really matter where they came from? After all, one can take a quick look at the ballots and see that they were cast in last Tuesday’s election. They were figured into the totals right after the polls closed, so this is hardly a case where they were found days or weeks after the fact and could have been tampered with during that time, etc.
The school district board of canvassers, which is conducting the official recount, is said to be making a decision on Wednesday as to whether or not to count the votes. The hope is that between now and then District 8’s chief election inspector can attest to delivering the ballot bag to city hall.
I personally hope they allow the votes to count. If not, the 262 people who took time out of their day to exercise their civic responsibility by voting will be disenfranchised by the decision. Not only will their votes be nullified but their voices in their government will be silenced. Secondly, the vote totals in every other race could change, depending on if the ballots are thrown out altogether or just the school board votes are tossed.
If the ballots are nullified in their entirety, it probably won't affect the overall election outcome, but all candidates' totals surely will change, and it could change the positions in which some winners placed. Also to nullify the ballot in its entirety would dramatically affect the outcome of the County Board Race for District 17; after all, most if not all of the votes for that district come from St. John’s.
But even if it would only be the school board votes that got tossed, it's a gamble for Becker: he could win; but it's also entirely possible he would lose – and maybe by more than he lost originally.
Certainly we want every election to run as smoothly as possible and be as error- and problem-free as they can be. We also have heard arguments from people during the last week that we want to make sure every vote is counted. I agree again. And that is exactly why I believe these votes should not be nullified, the recount should continue with these votes included and let the people’s choice win.
- Cheryl
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: admin on Wednesday, April 12 2006 @ 08:39 AM MDT
After hearing testimony from the District 8 election official (St. John's Lutheran Church) and getting a recommendation from its legal counsel, the Board of Canvassers late Tuesday did apparently allow the 262 District 8 votes to be included in vote totals from the April 4 election. Incumbent candidate Dan Becker objected, his objection was noted in the recount records and the recount continued.
See the Oshkosh Northwestern online for the complete update...
http://www.thenorthwestern.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060412/OSH01/60412004
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: tthiel on Wednesday, April 12 2006 @ 10:20 PM MDT
I spent the entire day at the recount (to support Amy Weinsheim -- play with her baby while she was looking at ballots and look at ballots for her while she was feeding her baby)
Dan objects everytime a ballot is discarded because there are not 2 signatures from poll workers, saying it is inconsistent to discard ballots that don't have the required signature but not throw out all the ballots in the bag that doesn't have the required signature (of course he started the whole invalidate the ballot because only one poll worker signed) so Mrs. Weinsheim is pretty much forced to do the same. All the ballots in the bag in question DID have the required 2 signatures from poll workers.
He also tried to have absentee ballots from an entire ward "invalidated" (not sure if that is the right term but basically not counted) because the poll worker did not write ABS next to the absentee voter's name in the poll book. The attorney said it was not required even though in most of the other wards the poll workers had written ABS next to the voters name in their book. The board of canvassers counted all these ballots but why would anyone want to throw out an entire ward of absentee ballots? Before you answer think about whether that would be your answer if it was your absentee ballot they threw out. They did name those people so it could be yours...
I really can't figure out what this recount is about but it is certainly NOT about making sure every vote is counted. Which is what the Mattox - Tower recount was about, they were very civil to each other and basically just asked that certain ballots be re-created because either the oval wasn't completely colored in or there was an x in the box or it was just too light.
That happened today too but a lot of the time was Mr. Becker objecting and trying to have ballots "thrown out". The errors are simple human errors, you will have mistakes when you have humans doing this, there is no fraud or gross irregularities.
An absentee voter signs his or her name on the witness line on the ENVELOPE and the witness signs below the voters signature and that ballot shouldn't be counted? Why if you want every vote to be counted would you want to throw out a vote on such a technicality. The board of canvassers did not throw the ballots out but why would someone ask them to in the first place? NOT because they wanted every vote counted.
I'm sure there will be some good spin on this one. Can't wait to hear it.
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: L Schaffer on Friday, April 14 2006 @ 08:40 PM MDT
The only reason you want Amy back on the school board is because she is a yes person, what ever the teachers want, Amy says yes. When a school budget that increases over 30 million dollars in 5 years and the school district still is no better at teaching our kids something has to be done. In a very short time this school district is going to be facing a very real budget crisis and we don't need people on this school board that gives into every whim that the teachers want. I know Mrs. Thiel will disagree with me on this one, but she is married to a teacher and that is alright with me that she disagrees. As for the people that were incharge of the voting places and if they can not do a very simple job as to make sure they sign there names in the proper spot, then they should be replaced. There is no excuse for shoddy work.
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: tthiel on Sunday, April 16 2006 @ 08:33 PM MDT
Not that I agree with you Mr. Schaffer, that the pollworkers do shoddy work because I don't after 13-15 hours on the job anyone is likely to forget something. The real point is should 262 people's votes be THROWN OUT because a pollworker forgot to sign a bag, especially when all of the ballots inside the bag were signed by TWO pollworkers? Should your vote not count because you voted absentee and signed your envelope with a PENCIL? Should your vote not count because you voted absentee and the pollworker didn't write ABS next to your name in the pollbook (mind you the number on the envelope and the number next to your name do match)? These are the types of things Mr. Becker wanted ballots invalidated for. I say this recount in NOT about making sure all votes are counted, it is about voter suppression and trying to throw out as many votes as possible! That is just WRONG!
It doesn't matter who I want on the board, what matters is who the voters elected and it is wrong to try and throw out votes on a technicality!
Teresa Thiel
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: admin on Sunday, April 16 2006 @ 08:40 PM MDT
I agree with Mrs. Thiel 100 percent on these points. I have a question though that maybe Mrs. Thiel can answer.
Do you know why during the recount they did not use one of the newer machines that would read ovals in marker and/or in pen, rather than using one of the older ones that just read ovals from markers? I heard this forced several ballots to be recreated and that only toward the end of the recount was one of the newer machines brought in. Seems like had they done that in the beginning, some time and effort could have been saved.
- Cheryl
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: tthiel on Monday, April 17 2006 @ 11:36 AM MDT
I didn't hear this first hand but someone told me when they asked how the machine was chosen the City Clerk said 4 is my favorite number... so they got machine #4. They didn't actually use a new machine, they did bring it in but Mr. Becker, after demanding a new machine... decided not to go with it because if they had they would have had to resubmit all the ballots in that district into the new machine (and it was one of the districts that had the most ballots). After that district Mr. Becker elected to go with the "status quo". The main reason for so many recreations was the use of ball point pen at one of the polling places. No one was sure how the pen came to be there, probably a voter using it and leaving it there but the new machine could read it the recount machine could not so a number of ballots had to be recreated. That is why they only want those markers to be used, you never know when a recount may occur.
Teresa Thiel
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: admin on Monday, April 17 2006 @ 08:16 PM MDT
Teresa, thanks for your insight on the voting machine. I appreciate it.
Late today the vote from last week's recount was certified and incumbent Amy Weinsheim was declared the winner over fellow incumbent Dan Becker by a total of 11 votes. That is three votes more than the unofficial total declared on election night two weeks ago. According to the Oshkosh Northwestern, Mr. Becker will not pursue any further challenges to the certified election results.
Congratulations to Mrs. Weinsheim on her victory and hats off to both she and Mr. Becker for a hard fought battle and for trying to exercise as much patience as possible and enduring the very stressful times of the past 13 days.
- Cheryl Hentz
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: tthiel on Monday, April 17 2006 @ 10:13 PM MDT
Unofficially, I overheard someone say they counted all the objections during the recount...
Mr. Becker 207 objections
Mrs. Weinsheim 15 objections
Once the official minutes are prepared and posted you can count them for yourself.
My hat is definitely off to Amy for the way she handled herself during the recount.
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: admin on Monday, April 17 2006 @ 10:20 PM MDT
If those numbers are accurate, and I have no reason to believe they are not, that is a tremendous disparity in the number of objections raised by each candidate.
I await your providing us with the official minutes.
- Cheryl
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: tthiel on Tuesday, April 18 2006 @ 09:22 AM MDT
I should have the minutes by the end of the day today, I will e-mail them to you, Cheryl, so you can post them.
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: L Schaffer on Tuesday, April 18 2006 @ 11:21 AM MDT
Courts throw out convictions because of a technicality. Cases coming before the court system are dismissed because of a technicality. Banks refuse a loan because of something on a credit report that is false, another technicality. In the last presidential election thousands of abentee ballets that came from our troups from over sea's not counted because of arriving late, another technicality. Does this make it right, no. To say mistakes will be made because of people are human, that alone is a slap in the face. To just ignore the tech. mistakes is also wrong. I wonder the shoe was on the other foot of the canditate if those technicality mistakes would have come into play, we will never know unless it would happen again.
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: tthiel on Tuesday, April 18 2006 @ 05:10 PM MDT
The lawyer still has the minutes I should get a copy sometime tomorrow.
Teresa
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: tthiel on Wednesday, April 19 2006 @ 05:18 PM MDT
I have sent the minutes to Cheryl for posting. Once they are posted and people have read them I would be interested in knowing what people think this recount was really about... counting all votes or suppressing votes?
Teresa Thiel
Becker wants votes from one district nullified
Authored by: admin on Wednesday, April 19 2006 @ 05:29 PM MDT
I just posted them now Teresa. Thanks again!
- Cheryl
posted by Cheryl Hentz at 4:54 PM
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