City Employee Wages & Benefits
Contributed by: Anonymous
As I read all the contributions to the Bus Driver Wage posting, I keep wondering how many other areas in city and county government might be managed so poorly.
All you hear at City Council and County Board meetings is how all the budgets need to be tightened even further as Madison funding keeps declining.
Then, when citizens present common-sense suggestions such as instituting wage freezes and investigating healthcare option and benefit reductions the first comments are...UNION!
The City Council, County Board and School Board seem to be held hostage if you believe all that rhetoric.
I am NOT against unions. Unions have fought big business and created the middle class.
My issue is that when private sector jobs are in a declining state. Wages are stagnant and benefits are being reduced, those that hold taxpayer-funded jobs must also come to the realization that they must also mirror what’s happening in the private sector.
It's really simple math. Taxpayer’s jobs have been downsized and outsourced. Taxpayers find other employment at lower compensation and therefore have less money. Those that make a living on taxpayer contributions (city employees) must also make less money.
All those at the bargaining table would do themselves and their fellow taxpayers a favor if they recognized this and bargained accordingly.
The citizens of Oshkosh can not continue to pay city employees higher wages than the they themselves make.
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
City Employee Wages & Benefits
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 11:08 AM MST
Hey, this guys right on. Whoever you are YOU should be running for
city council. I would vote for you!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 12:13 PM MST
Does the poster realize that in this state there is binding arbitration ?
Also citizens/taxpayers demand services to be carried out even though number of employees has been cut.. Like garbage collection. plowing and maintaining of streets, etc. So Dennis McHugh can try and get a hiring freeze for the city of Oshkosh but if that means longer time to plow streets after a snowstorm or to pick up garbage, the original poster should not complain. The city council and school board can ask and demand all they want -the point is binding arbitration is the law in this state for public employees. One must give up something to get something from another.
When you cut personnel you cut service. The private sector is only answerable to whomever owns the business and the motive for them is $$$. That is why companies who lose money downsize and then give executives bonuses.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 12:24 PM MST
Bingo! Government is not the same as the private sector. The private sector cuts jobs because they don't remain competetive selling whatever it is they are selling. Don't count out automation! The ability for robots and computers to replace workers has had a large impact on jobs cuts recently.
The term 'outsourcing' comes up often in discussions like this. A company cuts jobs to send work out of the area, as they can be more cost effective in producing their goods.
Public sector jobs cannot be outsourced! If you want your garbage picked up, your toilet to flush, your streets to be plowed, the police to show up when you call, etc, you need to pay people to do it. The unions are in place to protect the wages and the working conditions of those employees. They obviously do a good job.
Employees are not going to take pay cuts. Further, I doubt arbitrators are going to 'award' pay cuts to cities. We live in the days of 'quid pro quo,' as much as you hate to hear that. If a case goes to arbitration, and the city is asking the union to give something up, they have to offer something in return of equal value-- time off, incentives, something!
This is the way that it works. I know it makes some of you MAD, but it's life. Truly, tho, our city employees really earn a living wage, and we should not be dissatisfied with that. If you're jealous, seek out the jobs of the nearly 700 people who work for the city and apply to become one yourself!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 03:14 PM MST
More than a living wage...there are no competitive forces to bring these wages/benefits down to market levels. A good reason why we need more accountability in government leadership. A lot of government positions are no more than a form of welfare.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 04:11 PM MST
The only wage quoted so far is the bus drivers. I have done some looking around various websites to see what other cities are paying. Unfortunately, there is not a lot of information.
I can tell you that BARGAINING, even way before arbitration, uses both internal and external comparables to determine the 'competetive wage' for the area. The competetive forces are other municipalities. Look at most of the jobs! There is no private sector equivalent and so wages are based on what other communites pay for the same job.
I can think of garbage collection as one of the only city provided services that has a private equivalent. What else is there? There isn't street maintenance, or water distribution workers, there aren't police officers or firefighters or wastewater treatment plant operators. How do cities compare? They guage their contracts by what other cities are doing!
I looked into the bus driving information, and the original poster was correct: the starting wage for a bus driver in Oshkosh is $18 an hour. We have no idea that the other wages listed are correct. The poster chose to remain anonymous and therefore the info cannot be corraborated.
To the person who is sick of the quid pro quo, arbitration, step increases, etc, I have this to say: fact of life. It's the way things operate. They are brought up to enlighten you to the way government works. You don't have to like it. You do have to accept that it is there, and that's how contracts are bargained.
Lastly, for the record, there is NO "cost of living increase" provided to ANY city employee. The only raises ever given are those bargained in the contracts; they are in line with cities like ours, and they are across the board for all city employees.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 07:59 PM MST
Some very good points on both sides as to the reality of the situation. The fact that there are few public sector comparables for many city (government) employees is part of the problem. Our cities bargaining is based on other cities, who base their's on others, etc. etc. If one cities employee union scores a big wage increase, it's a domino effect for everyone else. This has been the way things HAVE worked and work now. But......
Unions have continued to lose their power over the last 30 years. I'm sure many would have never thought that the mighty UAW would have ever gotten to a stage where they would accept wage decreases and benefit reductions, but those days have come. The free market system WILL eventually reach government employees. The current system is under stress and eventually will break.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, March 26 2006 @ 11:33 AM MST
"To the person who is sick of the quid pro quo, arbitration, step
increases, etc, I have this to say: fact of life. It's the way things
operate. They are brought up to enlighten you to the way government
works. You don't have to like it. You do have to accept that it is there,
and that's how contracts are bargained."
It's clear to me that many of these comments come from City
employees themselves.
If I were a City employee, I would want to make a case for my
position too. But wrong is wrong no matter how much "lipstick you put
on that pig!"
Some positions certain can justify the wage they earn. Police officers
must have criminal justices degrees and many hundreds of hours of
schooling.
Firefighter have similar requirements.
What is the requirement for a BUS DRIVER? A CDL? Big deal,
anybody can get one of those with little trouble (look at all the school
bus drivers)
Going back to the other post...I just can't support a bus driver starting
wage at $18.05. THAT IS JUST WRONG!
In another post, someone mentioned a Winnebago County Receptionist
compensated at $50,000. Have you looked in the paper classifieds at
the going wage rate for a receptionist lately? I challenge you to show
me a position like that in the PRIVATE SECTOR that would be above
$30,000!
Things have gotta change.
EXTENSIVE Investigation needs to occur.
I believe when this is done, and the light of truth shines on our public
sector (city, county, school system) wage and benefits package, a
citizen revolt just may occur!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, March 26 2006 @ 12:43 PM MST
I am just stating the facts: quid pro quo and binding arbitration are LAWS. The city has no way around them when bargaining contracts. You don't like it-- that's fine. But when you make your arguments, you need to understand that these are in place, and the city has to play by the rules. You can't ignore these ideas and then cry foul! The city has to play by the rules in place.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, March 26 2006 @ 12:57 PM MST
The city can lay people off if there are no other options. When faced with the possibility of job losses and/or being overworked and understaffed, one would hope the union would not be so pig-headed as to be unwilling to compromise for the greater good. The union can make compromises if it chooses. They just have not shown a willingness to do that. So lay people off and if the others can't manage the work load replace them and find someone who can. Stop trying to make everything so damn complicated. This should be about working together, not each side digging in their heels and not budging.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, March 26 2006 @ 03:33 PM MST
The unions have compromised for the greater good. You don't have the inside information to know if that is the case or not. I am telling you it has happened.
You may not like what has happened in the past. You have a means to take care of that-- at the polls in April.
It's unfortunate that a bus driver wage suddenly makes all of the city workers lazy pigs. They work their butts off to provide excellent service to this city.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, March 27 2006 @ 05:59 AM MST
OUTSTANDING.......
PERFECTLY STATED!!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, March 27 2006 @ 06:50 AM MST
"The city can lay people off if there are no other options. When faced with the possibility of job losses and/or being overworked and understaffed, one would hope the union would not be so pig-headed as to be unwilling to compromise for the greater good. The union can make compromises if it chooses. They just have not shown a willingness to do that. So lay people off and if the others can't manage the work load replace them and find someone who can. Stop trying to make everything so damn complicated. This should be about working together, not each side digging in their heels and not budging."
Well said!!
This is not at all complicated. We just need council members and city administrators with some guts to do what needs doing!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, March 27 2006 @ 02:05 PM MST
It all starts with city staff and our personnel department. He is the one negotiating these contracts.
He is on record as saying the city is getting a good deal to have employees pay 5% of the health insurance premiums. It is that attitude that is driving our taxes through the roof. He needs to know he is working for the tax payers and not the public employees. The council needs to dictate to city staff, not the other way around.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, March 27 2006 @ 02:07 PM MST
I agree 100% with this comment. We are in the driver's seat, not the other way around. Or we need to be anyway.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 12:58 PM MST
It's always easy to pick on Public Employees isn't it? We're all a bunch of lazy folks living off the public tax money and not earning our pay. Ride a garbage truck one day or work out on 41 patching blacktop and tell me if you still feel that way.
Just wondering, does the person who recommended laying employees off realize that reductions in the workforce are going to mean reductions in service? Why do you think the State Revenue Department wants you to file your taxes online or by phone. So they don't have to have as many employees. They used to hire HUNDREDS of temps to open tax returns. The next time you're standing in line at the DVM, don't blame it on the folks behind the desk, blame it on "CUTS TO THE WORKFORCE". Of course, you can get around that by going to a gas station and taking care of your license renewal, but, I'm not giving my personal information to someone at a Quiky Mart.
Also, just for the record binding arbitration is in place for city and county employees but not ALL public employees in the state. State employees do not have Binding Arbitration.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 04:23 PM MST
You know...when you're employed, you often think you are not
replaceable. Reality comes to the rescue as you see a company move
along in your absence just as though you never existed.
We are all replaceable!
I am certain that 10-20% of our 700 city employees could be
dismissed and the city would churn along nicely. The only question
would be where those 10-20% come from.
Geez..if the garbage men can complete there jobs in 3 hours if they
run, maybe we really don't need them all??
Geez..if bus routes are only 20% utilized (empty buses) maybe we
can reduce our entire routes (employees) by 5-10%
Geez.. If we could merge some departments, maybe we could
eliminate some middlemanager positions.
Gees.. I'm only getting warmed up people. I could maybe think of
dozens of ways we might lower our total headcount, keep services to
an excepted level and reduce taxes.
Help me out...who has more ideas?
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 06:52 PM MST
Good ideas. I don't think the garbage men complete their routes in 3 hours, however. More like 6 and a half during 'slower' times of the year. I am sure around Christmas and during spring cleaning times, the routes take much longer. Personally I don't think this is an area that can be cut.
Cutting bus routes is an interesting idea. Studies show, however, that it is lower income citizens who use buses for transportation. If you cut the bus routes, you actually harm the community because you limit a poor person's ability to get to work. If they can't get to work they don't stay employed, which ends up costing tax payers more because of unemployment benefits that must be paid.
The library hours were cut significantly last year to help with budget constraints. Should we limit the library even more?
Previous posts talked about plowing tertiary streets only during business hours. If the snow storm happens on a weekend and you don't live on a main drag, you might have to wait till Monday to get plowed out. That would save thousands in overtime costs.
What about the parks dept? I am not very familiar with their operations, but certainly there must be areas where cuts can be made.
Let's reduce some of the ridiculous permits that are required in the city. We certainly need building permits and inspections that go along with them, but there are some frivolous areas that require permits. Examples are building permits for driveways or patios, and please, do away with the pool permit idea. Less permits require fewer inspections, reducing the workload on city staff.
Lastly, there is always concern about public safety cuts, but what about cutting some of the non-essential services provided by the police department? Parking violations, civil issues, fireworks complaints and the like could all be removed from calls the police department will respond to. This will decrease the need for patrol officers and positions there could be eliminated. I wonder if similar situations could be found within the fire dept.
There are some ideas. The bottom line is, if you cut positions, you cut services. Are you willing to make that trade off? It's a tough question, but one that has to be asked.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 06:12 AM MST
I cannot tell if the last post was tongue in cheek or not! Since there are all these "wonderful" ideas on how to save money and lower our expectations as to the level of service, why don't we just go ahead and shut the street lights off. Citizens of London did this during World War II so we should be able to get by in these hard times. If you need to drive; your vehicle has headlamps, use them. If you walk, use a flashlight. Why should I pay for "your" light? Hey, how about all those police squads. If we put 4 cops in one car then we can reduce the number of police squads by 3/4. Wow, would that save on the gas bill. Let's also do away with garbage collection altogether. After all, why should we pay for the over-consumption of goods. Oh of course, since Neenah-Menasha combined their Fire Departments, why don't we just join them. After all, Oshkosh has never had any fires have we? . . . . (well OK, the fires did not kill EVERYONE in the city when they roared through Oshkosh).
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 06:49 AM MST
Nope, as the author, I can tell you these were not tongue in cheek. You ask for ways to cut our city's costs-- I offered some. Where else are we going to cut all this money everyone is demanding?
"I want to lower my taxes, but I refuse to accept a reduction in service!" You can't have your cake and eat it, too!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, April 02 2006 @ 06:38 PM MDT
I totally agree with this person. I do not begrudge city or county worker their fair due. They work hard and deserve to earn a decent wage. But don't the rest of us also? When local government keeps forcing us to pay more every time we turn around, something has to give. There are too many things stretching our checkbook. What is so difficult for some of you folks to see about that?
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, April 03 2006 @ 06:18 AM MDT
"You are correct in most of what you say.
Summed up, it's like this: A union is ALWAYS only as strong as a company (or city) allows it to be.
The owners/managers at AxleTech had guts. The City Council, the dept managers, and the negotiators for the City don't have guts. They don't understand unions or negotiations, most probably quake in their boots at the mention of the word "union". They will roll over and play dead."
God, I hope our city staff and Ed Nokes has guts!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, April 04 2006 @ 11:26 AM MDT
UNION MENTALITY.............
Available on the Post Cresent Web Site, Business section..
Arlen Boardman column:
GM union playing a crippling role in company's problems
It's unfortunate what's happening to General Motors Corp. and Delphi Corp. workers, but those workers — and more specifically, their United Auto Workers union — must share fully in the blame for what has happened.
What has happened is that Delphi, formerly part of GM and still tied through worker benefit responsibilities, and GM have been brought to their economic knees by a combination of factors. Delphi has filed for bankruptcy and many expert observers think GM might be forced to do the same this year.
There's no doubt that those running GM made mistakes, which have contributed mightily to its dramatic loss in market share, from half the U.S. auto market several years ago to about 24 percent now, and its employment from 457,000 factory workers in 1985 to 113,000 now.
These mistakes include relying too much on high-powered vehicles that consume much now-expensive gasoline and not developing lines of low-cost operating vehicles that could compete with Toyota and other manufacturers.
GM has complained that it needs the high-profit vehicles to support its expensive labor costs, as well as its legacy costs — pension and retiree health benefits. The total hourly cost for a GM factory worker, including wages and fringes, is about $73, a U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission filing showed.
GM's troubles have been well documented in the media, but it perhaps was its record $10.6 billion loss for 2005 and the well-publicized pressure of its largest shareholder's displeasure that may have triggered the unprecedented employee buyout and early-retirement program.
The buyout program is generous by historical standards, giving workers with at least 30 years service a $36,000 (full) pension and full retirement health care for quitting, and a $35,000 one-time payment.
Younger workers with fewer years could get up to a $140,000 lump sum.
Getting labor costs under control isn't the answer to all GM's problems, but it's a critical part of the solution.
There is no way GM can compete no matter how wonderful its vehicles are if its cost per vehicle is forced up thousands of dollars by labor costs that far outstrip its competitors' labor costs.
Driving back from Milwaukee last month, I listened to Frank Emspak, an associate professor of the University of Wisconsin Extension School for Workers, a pro-union labor operation, lament on Wisconsin Public Radio about the impending demise of the lucrative GM labor and benefits level. He promised manufacturing wage and benefit cutbacks would spread to other manufacturers.
I don't know if that will happen, but I believe that Emspak was disingenuous when he said the UAW and its members were merely victims of this GM disaster. He said they had no power to control what GM did in vehicle development and marketing, which is true. But to suggest they were merely victims doesn't do justice to the pressure in the name of more and more benefits that the UAW put on GM management for the past several decades.
Their constant demands and threats of crippling strikes kept GM managers from making the decisions to keep GM competitive. Whether the succession of managers would have made the right decisions, if there were no pressure, of course, is debatable.
This is an economic disaster for GM, but not for the nation, its working people or even the auto industry. It's a disaster created by arrogant managers and greedy UAW employees, who together sacrificed GM's future.
The UAW has acquiesced to this buyout offer, but these latest developments haven't made the UAW toothless yet. The Wall Street Journal recently reported that GM has been edgy that car parts maker Delphi might ask the bankruptcy court to vacate its UAW contract (which it did last week) and trigger a Delphi strike, which would shut down GM assembly lines for lack of parts.
That's the mentality that got GM in trouble in the first place.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, April 04 2006 @ 12:14 PM MDT
Hummmm……..
City Employee Unions and the UAW
Some interesting similarities. Even though this is private vs. public sector.
“Getting labor costs under control isn't the answer to all GM's problems, but it's a critical part of the solution.”
Getting labor costs under control isn't the answer to all OSHKOSHCITY problems, but it's a critical part of the solution.
“There is no way GM can compete no matter how wonderful its vehicles are if it’s cost per vehicle is forced up thousands of dollars by labor costs that far outstrip its competitors' labor costs.”
There is no way OSHKOSH TAXPAYERS can TOLORATE ADDITIONAL PROPERTY TAXES no matter how wonderful its CITY SERVICES are if it’s cost per SERVICE is forced up thousands of dollars by labor costs…..
“I don't know if that will happen, but I believe that Emspak was disingenuous when he said the UAW and its members were merely victims of this GM disaster. He said they had no power to control what GM did in vehicle development and marketing, which is true. But to suggest they were merely victims doesn't do justice to the pressure in the name of more and more benefits that the UAW put on GM management for the past several decades.”
I don't know if that will happen, but I believe that COMMENTS POSTED BY CITY UNION MEMBERS was disingenuous when he said the THE CITY OF OSHKOSH UNION and its members were merely victims of this CITY FINANCIAL disaster. He said they had no power to control what OSHKOSH did in CITY development and marketing, which is true. But to suggest they were merely victims doesn't do justice to the pressure in the name of more and more benefits that the CITY EMPLOYEES put on OSHKOSH TAXPAYERS for the past several decades.
“Their constant demands and threats of crippling strikes kept GM managers from making the decisions to keep GM competitive.”
Their constant demands and threats of crippling ARBITRATION kept OSHKOSH CITY managers AND NOGOTIATORS from making the decisions to keep OSHKOSH competitive.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, April 04 2006 @ 12:29 PM MDT
This says it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder what the total compensation package is for city workers such as the bus drivers or garbage men?
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 05 2006 @ 11:00 PM MDT
Good question! Why don't you get off your lazy butt and find out if you're so curious, instead of just complaining about it!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 06 2006 @ 06:11 AM MDT
No need to stress Mr.City Employee.
We public sector employees have been experiencing layoff, wage reductions, wage freezes, job eliminations, benefit reductions etc etc etc for along time now.
Check out the news at KC and Mercury Marine today.
Hey, I guess it might be time for you guys to experience what the real world is feeling and crawl out from behind that Union/Public Sector shield you've been behind for so long.
BTW. You will survive. Just get rid of some of the toys that you've enjoyed (boats, SUV's ATV's Snowmobiles, stuff like that) You can live on less if you downsize your lifestyle.
Just a friendly word to the wise from one worker to another.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 06 2006 @ 11:46 AM MDT
Doesn't sound very FRIENDLY! Instead of pulling everyone down with you, you may want to re-evaluate your career choices. If the public sector employees have it soooooooooo great, why don't you apply for a position? There is certainly a lot of talk about how great they have it, compared to the private sector. The grass is always greener . . .
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 06 2006 @ 12:55 PM MDT
Apply for what? They will be cutting positions not adding them.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 06 2006 @ 01:03 PM MDT
Again,
No need to stress Mr.City Employee.
I've heard that many of the KC guys are trading in their F-250's.
The Kia dealership is getting really busy!
Learn to live on less.
Just a bit of friendly advice.
A fellow laborer and Oshkosh taxpayer and homeowner.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 06 2006 @ 07:36 PM MDT
As a city worker, I am not worried. I am aware of the current economic status and yet I am confident the city and the union will bargain a contract that is fair to both the city and the union in the current economic market. If the city decides they need to to cut positions, so be it. These are most likely to be done as attrition cuts and not layoffs. I can only work so many hours a week, and my tasks will simply be geared towards items deemed most important to the city.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 06 2006 @ 07:59 PM MDT
It is outstanding to hear a common sense remark that represents a
true understanding that the current level of pay and benefits clearly
needs renogotiation.
Yes it is true the city will likely bargain a fair contract that will
nodoubt have job losses through attrition. This is a good approach.
Unfortunately we could employ two workers earning $9.00 an hour for
the one bus driver we now employ earning $18.00 an hour.
It is all economics. Market supply and demand. The market can't
justify bus drivers at $18.00 an hour when the labor force could
provide willing and able workers quite easily for $12-$15 plus the
wonderful city benefits.
I am certain a new contract will be arrived at and most will be happy.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 06 2006 @ 08:24 PM MDT
You see tho, you can't hire them at 12-15 bucks an hour. The current contract, a LEGAL document, says if you hire a bus driver, you have to pay them 18 per hour. I know, I know, contracts are being negotiated, but please, do you really think an arbitrator is going to allow a 3-6 dollar pay cut without some major concessions by the city? Not on your life.
By the way, in no way did I indicate that "the current level of pay and benefits clearly needs renogotiation." I guess one could argue that happens every time a contract is neogiated, but with the exception of the bus driving wage, no one has shown ANY evidence that any city employees are "overcompensated." Please stop trying to put words in my mouth. You do a lousy job of it.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 07 2006 @ 06:06 AM MDT
For someone who is so confident, due to the legal standing of union contracts, you certainly seem a bit tense and stressed. I just attempt to paint a picture that you don't want to look at. You and your union brothers may infact skate through the next contact with another hefty wage and benefit filled bucket of taxpayer funding, but I'm just attempting to place a mattress on the ground for a softer fall in the event that doesn't happen. Have a great weekend!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 07 2006 @ 06:45 AM MDT
What's your mattress made out of? Concrete? We are all aware of the current climates in both politics and money. We are aware of health care issues and changes that have recently occurred. We have dialogue with city officials on changes on the horizon.
But you come out here with no clue of what happens between the city and its unions and grandstand about how our union will fail, how we're overpaid, and how there is no comparison for public employees when bargaining contracts. Please! You have absolutely no idea how the city bargaining process works. NONE! You don't even know who the city's negotiator is! And you're "padding my fall?" Do a little more homework before you try to save me from the heartache of lost wages, benefits, and coworkers.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 07 2006 @ 07:04 AM MDT
I feel your pain Mr. City Employee. I and many of my friends have been impacted by corporate downsizing and wage reductions.
I my case, I never saw it coming. One day I was summoned into a conference. There sat the division VP, corporate HR director and plant manager. I was told that my work was excellent, but the corporation was moving in another direction and my job was terminated. All this after 25 years of service. So again, I feel your pain.
If I would have had the opportunity to have my pay reduced, my vacation time reduced, some of my benefits reduced, just to maintain my job, I would have gladly done that. BUT that was not offered. No nogotiation...just after 25 years Im not needed any longer. Im no fool, they can replace me with somebody that would work for half as much with a third less benefits. Thats the way corporate America works these days.
What I suggest is that you and your union brothers take a page from my play book. Be willing to accept pay and benefit cuts to maintain your jobs.
At least you might have the option...I didn't.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 07 2006 @ 10:44 AM MDT
well if thats corporate america it totally sucks. that is what everybody that voted for bush got us. bush is like totally big business and big oil. its like so obvious that all the perks go to corporations and alotta them are there with hands open. look at halleburton and dead-eye dick cheney. some democrats are no better. truth is both major parties really suck. maybe we workers should revolt and like demand change. now we got all these mexicans flooding into america an working for pennies and that sets the bar way to low to support any familys for the rest of us. like who is a corporation gonna hire to do regular labor? mexicans that work for like $1.00 an hour or a american citizen with a family that needs $15.00 just to keep the kids fed. it all really sucks. I got no sympathy for the guys in unions at like GM and stuff tho because they are so NOT worth $75.00 wages and bennies to put wheels on cars. thats whats wrong. it all is either overpaid or underpaid. like the guy said 18.00 is way to much for a bus driver to make
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, April 09 2006 @ 09:12 AM MDT
I call on each of our council representatives to make this a priority
issue as the new council is seated. We need to find out who's right on
this. Are our city employees paid below, at or above average wages
for similar positions in other communitys. Do we need all of our
current staffing at the levels we have now? Could we cut back? Are
there some areas that need more? If so, what is the hard
justification. And just what is up with that whole bus driver thing?
We need a big push on this issue and we need it soon!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 05 2006 @ 01:06 PM MDT
Gee, I thought the theme was city workers are getting benefits that NO ONE in the private sector sees... guess that wasn't true now was it?
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, April 04 2006 @ 03:13 PM MDT
Hmmmmmmmm . . . Where were all these people that are NOW concerned about public sector worker's wages when the PRIVATE sector was growing by leaps and bounds in the 90s and the Public Sector was getting small increases. Interesting.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, April 04 2006 @ 03:20 PM MDT
Forget about the wages, it is in the benefit packages where the problems lie. And, yes, services will be cut. We can no longer afford the level of service we are accustomed to. If the TPA passes you will not believe how the level of services will be cut.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, April 04 2006 @ 06:33 PM MDT
Just remember that when you cannot get out of your driveway during the next snow storm.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, April 04 2006 @ 09:22 PM MDT
Hey as it is most of the time now you shovel your driveway and the plows come by and close it up with all the crap from the street anyway.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 05 2006 @ 05:51 AM MDT
If I have to wait a while to get out of my driveway in order to make significant changes to the city employee benefit package and a hard look at wages that may be out of line (BUS DRIVERS $18.05 STARTING PAY) I, and many of my friends are willing to do that. If the city union doesn't understand this, then we as community citizens will have to do the heavy lifting and deal with less services to get things changed. Its really to bad that it has to be this way though. I say bring it on. Oftentimes difficult times require sacrifice and I'm willing to do my part.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 05 2006 @ 08:38 AM MDT
My driveway does not get plowed until the afternoon anyway, so I have dealt with the poor service for the past few years. We as citizens will have to give up some services. We simply can not afford the status quo.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 05 2006 @ 11:31 AM MDT
I hope Paul Esslinger and Dennis McHugh will make this issue a priotity as they begin their new term.
Oshkosh taxpeyers can not afford the current wage and benefit package city employees currently enjoy.
Head count, wage and benefit conditions for both Union and non-union employees need be deep evaluation. Cuts and reductions should follow.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 05 2006 @ 05:59 PM MDT
Yep...wage and benefit cuts should follow, even tho you only know one wage of any of the city empoloyees. Wonderful.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 05 2006 @ 06:42 PM MDT
Benefits, benefits, benefits, that is where we need to look.
City Employee Wages & Benefits
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 12:38 PM MST
"The citizens of Oshkosh can not continue to pay city employees higher wages than the they themselves make"
Compared to what? Stocking shelves at Wal Mart?
There are a lot of professionals that work for the city performing tasks that they went to school for years for. I went to school for 5 years post high school to obtain my training to work for the city. I should, and do, earn a wage comparable to what other employees in similar sized cities do. That's fair. I shouldn't make less just because a taxpayer does. I am a taxpayer too!
Cities HAVE to pay competetive wages-- if they don't, their employees will work in the private sector, and most likely will make MORE money than they do for the city. How does the city keep these people around? A good benefit package.
There isn't a city employee who doesn't make a wage that is similar to another employee in a similar city. That's how contracts are bargained. You pay in Oshkosh the same that other cities pay.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 12:58 PM MST
"There isn't a city employee who doesn't make a wage that is similar
to another employee in a similar city. That's how contracts are
bargained. You pay in Oshkosh the same that other cities pay."
HOW OSHKOSH COMPARES.....
BUS DRIVERS WAGES
Waukesha $12.30
Duluth $13.16
Racine $13.46
Merrill $13.61
Green Bay $13.66
Eau Claire $13.79
Manitowoc $13.96
Sheboygan $14.07
Wausau $14.51
La Crosse $14.80
Kenosha $15.17
Fond du Lac$15.24
Oshkosh $18.05
OK..lets pay the bus drivers a Fond du lac wage. That should help!
Thanks for offering!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 01:06 PM MST
I didn't read the article, but are you sure they are comparing apples to apples? Are all of those wages at the same point in the pay scale? I doubt it. Come on, it came from the Northwestern. Do you believe anything in there?
The ONLY wage that has been quoted in this whole argument has been bus drivers. What about other employment positions? No one seems to be too excited to dig those numbers up.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 03:11 PM MST
This is one of the best posts I've seen...EVER on this board. I'm sick to death of hearing about "binding arbitration"..."quid pro quo"..."step increases"..."cost of living increases". Thank you for stating so nicely how many of us feel.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, March 26 2006 @ 11:09 AM MST
I couldn't agree more.
How do we go about getting a complete acurate record of how much
each department classification is compensated?
Is this a part of "open records"?
I would ask CHERYL HENTZ the owner of this web site and host of the
OCAT show to look into this and produce a investigative segment on
her program.
I guarantee, with promotion and advance notice that segment would
be one of the highest watched shows that eventing...network or
otherwise!
There is a huge segment of out community that feels our fellow public
service employees (City, County, School Board) are PERHAPS highly
overcompensated.
Lets find out the truth!!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 12:43 PM MST
It's not a big dark secret folks.....
I'm sure if you went to the library or City Hall, they would tell you how to get information on how much city employees make because it is part of the public record.
I work for the University and my earnings are published in the University Budget Red Book and online for the entire world to see.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 04:14 PM MST
Thanks for the "heads up"...but please don't keep that important
information to yourself. Please share it.
Exactly where in the librarys reference section might we find that
information?
Thank you in advance.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 08:56 AM MST
Oh boy, this should be fodder for trough.
Here's the online link to the UW System budget.
http://www.uwsa.edu/budplan/redbook
Eat it up!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 10:59 AM MST
Lets stay on point people.
This whole issue came about as a result of another posting string called TRANSIT WORKERS (Bus Driver)
I think the original posting was that a classified article in the paper showed the bus drivers in Oshkosh have a starting wage of $18.00 an hour.
Then, somehow other Cities were polled and it was discovered that Oshkosh was the highest paid, and by quite a margin.
This information made me and many others sit up and take notice.
I thank that original poster for uncovering this little know fact.
Now that we know at least ONE Position within the 700 employee pool of personnel is certainly in need of dramatic wage reduction adjustments, there may be others.
Lets not get swept up with the UW system or even County governement yet...lets focus on Oshkosh.
Call you council members, contact Cheryl Hentz, write the Northwestern, contact WOSH.....ever effort should be made to bring city employee compensation in-line with REAL LIFE.
Layoff and downsize if necessary. If we as a city can't survive with less services, then we can post job openings at a far reduced wage/benefit package...IF WE CAN'T make due with less.
One way or another this bloated overpaid personnel situation must be addressed.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 11:30 AM MST
Nice try. A couple of points, tho.
1) With the contract in place, the city CANNOT lay people off and then post the positions for far less. The unions, thank God, have a clause in their contract that say employees working within a certain department must be paid at the contract wage. So much for that idea.
2) One person reads the want ads and all of a sudden we have a"bloated overpaid personnel situation." What a laugher.
YOU are the reason we have unions and contracts.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 12:45 PM MST
You don't post the positions for less. Instead you don't fill them. Let the highest paid with the most seniority gluttons who aren't willing to really negotiate and have room for give and take work their a-s-s-e-s off.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 01:05 PM MST
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 12:45 PM MST
You don't post the positions for less. Instead you don't fill them. Let the highest paid with the most seniority gluttons who aren't willing to really negotiate and have room for give and take work their a-s-s-e-s off.
OUTSTANDING Reply!
Another "thinking outside the box" thought.
Seems our fellow Union PUBLIC SECTOR employees need to watch CNN and see what's going on in France.
Finally the totally far left French are coming to realize that nobodys job should be without scrutiny.
There is no such thing as a "job for life".
Weed out the overpaid, overcompensated employees.
The citizens of Oshkosh can't continue to tolorate the ever increased spending on wages and benefits, when the jobs clearly don't justify the compensation.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 01:58 PM MST
Everyone keeps posting on here, with an occasional emphasis on 'overpaid, overcompensated employees.' The two bits of information that are lacking here are:
1) Which employees are overpaid? All of them?
and
2) How do we know they're overpaid? The only reference to any amount any position makes is a bus driver. Are you simply assuming ALL city employees are over paid? Without facts, well, you know what assuming makes you look like...
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 02:09 PM MST
When employees are only contributing a small amount to their healthcare in comparison to the private sector, that shows overcompensation and is something we can't keep affording. Consider that ALL represented city employees.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 02:18 PM MST
"Everyone keeps posting on here, with an occasional emphasis on 'overpaid, overcompensated employees.' The two bits of information that are lacking here are:
1) Which employees are overpaid? All of them?
and
2) How do we know they're overpaid? The only reference to any amount any position makes is a bus driver. Are you simply assuming ALL city employees are over paid? Without facts, well, you know what assuming makes you look like..."
As a current City Employee....do you agree that the one employee classification we know of (bus drivers) are overcompensated?
What say you??
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 02:32 PM MST
Judging by the comments I think the answer is YES
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 30 2006 @ 04:24 PM MST
Here is some actual hard fact data.
Taken from the U.S. Department of Labor web site.
www.bls.gov
National estimates for this occupation:
Bus Drivers, Transit and Intercity.
Employment estimate and mean wage estimates for this occupation:
Mean (average)hourly wage: $15.27
Mean (average)annual wage: $31,750
OSHKOSH BUS DRIVERS ARE OVER COMPENSATED!!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, April 01 2006 @ 10:31 AM MST
Here is data collected from the US Department of Labor Website
This data is specific to Wisconsin.
SOS Code 33-2011 - Fire Fighters
Median Hourly Wage - $15.19
SOS Code 33-2011 - Fire Inspectors & Investigators
Median Hourly Wage - $20.94
SOS Code 33-3021 - Dectectives & Criminal Investigators
Median Hourly Wage - $25.40
SOS Code 33-3051 - Police & Sheriffs Patrol Officers
Median Hourly Wage - $21.41
SOS Code 33-9091 - Crossing Guards
Media Hourly Wage - $10.32
SOS Code 37-3013 - Tree Trimmers & Pruners
Median Hourly Wage - $13.58
SOS Code 43-5032 - Police, Fire & Ambulance Dispatchers
Median Hourly Wage - $16.25
SOS Code 43-1011 - Supervisors/Managers of Office & Administrative
Support Workers
Median Hourly Wage - $19.96
SOS Code 43-3031 - Bookkeeping Accounting and Auditing Clerks
Median Hourly Wage - $13.38
SOS Code 43-4081 - File Clerks
Median Hourly Wage - $10.58
SOS Code 43-4171 - Receptionists & Information Clerks
Median Hourly Wage - $10.85
SOS Code 43-9021 -Data Entry Keyers
Median Hourly Wage - $10.86
SOS Code 49-3031 - Bus & Truck Mechanics & Diesel Engine
Specialists
Median Hourly Wage - $16.72
SOS Code 53-3021 - Bus Drivers, Transit & Intercity
Median Hourly Wage - $15.20
Just a short list of some average wages for public sector workers in
Wisconsin.
I wonder how Oshkosh employees compare?
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, April 01 2006 @ 11:28 AM MST
What benefits have they been offered? Health, Dental, Disability (remember, fighting fires is dangerous work) and then compare. It has to be done as a complete package in order to properly evaluate and classify any worker as "overpaid".
I know that the some city workers get paid more than in other cities. BUT they have given up benefits to get that wage. If you are going to criticize, make sure it is the WHOLE story. Not just a small part.
Have a happy April 1st!!
K Monte
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, April 01 2006 @ 12:06 PM MST
Paying 5% of the premium is NOT reasonable in this economy Mr. Monte.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, April 01 2006 @ 11:54 AM MST
Informative. Please note this data is 2 years old, taken from 2004.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, April 01 2006 @ 12:08 PM MST
It will be more beneficial to look at pay comparisons for those employed in the northeastern part of Wisconsin, not the State as a whole. The follwing link will provide you with pay comparisons for the Valley. This is important because we need to compare ourselves to cities with similar cost of living situations. It really doesn't pay to compare us to cost of living in Madison (much higher) or Racine (much lower).
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_0460.htm
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, April 02 2006 @ 10:05 AM MDT
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_0460.htm
Great Information!
I urge everyone to contact each member of our Common Council and
express your concern regarding the compensation of City Employees.
During union bargaining nogotiations, be need to insure that our
elected council members DIRECT city administrators to take a fair, but
HARD LINE stance on wage increases and benefit improvements.
I often cringe when I hear the term "we live on a fixed
income"...MANY Oshkosh private sector employees I know would love
to say that. The truth is, due to economic and current business
culture conditions, MANY people I know are living not on fixed
incomes....but on DECLINING incomes!
Oshkosh residents can not afford to pay additional property taxes for
increased wealth of city employees.
Obvious totally out-of-line compensation such as the bus drivers needs
immediate adjustment!
Each and every position and classification needs scrutiny. From our
City Manager right down to a entry level clerk.
CONTACT YOUR COUNCIL MEMBERS....AND REMEMBER TO VOTE!
To contact William Castle Jr.:
(920) 426-7309
1125 Hazel Street
Oshkosh, WI 54901
To contact Frank Tower:
ftower@ci.oshkosh.wi.us
(920) 426-2405
To contact Paul J. Esslinger:
(920) 426-9750
2350 High Oak Drive
Oshkosh, WI 54902
To contact Shirley Brabender Mattox:
sbrabendermattox@ci.oshkosh.wi.us
(920) 233-2833
1313 Jackson Street
Oshkosh, WI 54901
To contact Burk Tower:
btower@ci.oshkosh.wi.us
(920) 426-3236
933 Starboard Court
Oshkosh, WI 54901
To contact Bryan L. Bain:
bbain@ci.oshkosh.wi.us
(920) 651-9329
To contact Meredith Scheuermann:
mscheuermann@ci.oshkosh.wi.us
(920) 426-8073
3060 Mockingbird Way
Oshkosh, WI 54904
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 30 2006 @ 11:22 AM MST
Union workers take heed........
News from the auto industry -
DETROIT - Auto supplier Delphi Corp. is expected to ask a federal judge to cancel its union contracts Friday. Delphi had set a deadline of Thursday to reach an agreement with its unions and General Motors Corp. that would lower wages for its 34,000 U.S. hourly workers. The UAW, which represents the majority of Delphi’s hourly workers, reacted angrily this week to Delphi’s latest proposal, which calls for lowering workers’ wages from $27 an hour to $16.50 an hour in 2007. If GM doesn’t agree to supplement workers’ pay, wages would fall to $12.50 an hour for production workers the UAW said.
Our economy nationwide, and even more importantly local can't afford your high wages and benefits.
As the middleclass shrinks, all courtesy of the Right wing Republican (big business) Party, fewer people are left with the ability to afford your products and services.
You, as City of Oshkosh public sector employees must be prepared to face future wage and benefit reductions or layoffs and downsizing if you don't restructure your negotiation tactics.
Prepare to live with less. Many in the private sector have.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 03:17 PM MST
WAY too much emotion...check your facts on salary comparisons before making an emotional post like that.
City Employee Wages & Benefits
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, March 27 2006 @ 11:37 AM MST
Read this story posted on the Post Crescent web page today...
http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060326/APC03/603260534/1888
Unions fight uphill battle
Recent corporate decisions threaten to further weaken membership ranks
By Pete Bach
Unions should tread lightly. They do not have the power they once had.
Even good manufacturing paper mill workers are happy with $15.50 per hour after 8 years of service. $15.50 was after EIGHT years. Not starting pay.
Let me refresh your memory.
City of Oshkosh Bus Drivers get $18.05 STARTING PAY, for a sit down job in a climate controlled (heated and airconditioned bus) vs a mill worker standing in a hot, noisy, dirty environment making $15.50 after 8 years.
Tell me again how you justify that bus drivers wage??
Union workers.......you don't live in a vacuum with a Union shield protecting you any longer.
Be prepared to BARGAIN at the negotiation table!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 09:07 AM MST
Union leaders don't understand that negotiating is not just grabbing as much as you can and running. It is about getting the best deal you can for your members but being willing to have a sense of fair play and compromise at the same time. Negotiators for the city, county, and school district need to learn how to negotiate better also with our purse strings and an ever tight noose from Madison around our necks in mind when they do. This isn't happening on either front or we wouldn't have the mess we do.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 10:42 AM MST
"Union leaders don't understand that negotiating is not just grabbing as much as you can and running. It is about getting the best deal you can for your members but being willing to have a sense of fair play and compromise at the same time. Negotiators for the city, county, and school district need to learn how to negotiate better also with our purse strings and an ever tight noose from Madison around our necks in mind when they do. This isn't happening on either front or we wouldn't have the mess we do."
OUTSTANDING post.
You've summed this whole issue up in one paragraph!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 07:02 PM MST
I can't speak for unions in the private sector, but I do know that unions that make up city employees most certainly have compromised with the city during negotiations for the betterment of the city. The author of the previously quoted post has no idea of the internal workings and discussions between city management and union officials. The post is nothing more than stereotyping what unions stand for and does nothing to speak of the unions that make up the employees of this fine city.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 07:24 PM MST
"I can't speak for unions in the private sector, but I do know that
unions that make up city employees most certainly have compromised
with the city during negotiations for the betterment of the city. The
author of the previously quoted post has no idea of the internal
workings and discussions between city management and union
officials. The post is nothing more than stereotyping what unions stand
for and does nothing to speak of the unions that make up the
employees of this fine city."
The author of the previously quoted post has no idea of the internal
workings and discussions between city management and union
officials.....
I TOTALLY agree!
That is part of the problem. Why is this so cloke and dagger? Why
all the secrecy?
It may not be a Union issue...the City nogotiators may be totally inept
at their jobs. I/we have no way of knowing this.
Are these nogotiation meetings "open meetings" If not, why not?
At the very least, the Union representatives should let the citizens of
Oshkosh know what is being nogotiated. The average citizen may
have a bit more compassion for their situation.
HOWEVER...like was said in a previous posting. There is no way to
justify $18.05 starting pay for a city bus driver.... there is not enough
lipstick in the world to put on that pig to make it more attractive!
That is just WRONG.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 08:08 PM MST
I can tell you that the negotiations are private-- at least from the union standpoint. I am not sure if the city would be required to release information during the bargaining process. I am guessing they would not.
All city contracts are public record. There seems to be this idea that these things are kept secret. They are not at all! It is up to the interested party to contact city hall to ask for the information. I don't get the feeling that there really are any attempts to keep this information secret. If you want the information, you might have to do some work to find the information, but it's not jumping through hoops. The hardest part is simply finding out who to ask.
I work for the city. I am not going to divulge my name on here for certain reasons, but if you want information on my position within the city, how much I make, or anything like that, just ask. You can send me an e-mail at oshwi324@yahoo.com. I will consider sharing information with you.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: L Schaffer on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 09:57 PM MST
When the city and unions agree on a contract and the Northwestern reports, very little information is given to the paper and it seems to me that the city administers and the union do not want the general public to know what was agreed. The only way the public will find out if all meeting are for public view and by what I mean is all meetings be aired on tv, be it with the union, our city manager, developer and so on. No more behind closed door meetings, everything out in the open. That is the way goverment should work, no secrets.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 06:17 AM MST
Sure, and we hope that you will publish the transcript of your next employment review here as well.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 06:55 AM MST
Personnel evaluations are confidential. Someone offers information that posters on this site have asked questions about and all you can do is insult. Really nice.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 06:51 AM MST
L Schaffer, the info is right there for the taking! YOU have to go get it. Make the first call to Dick Wollangk's office and I bet you'll be surprised as to the information you can obtain. You only see it as being secret because you don't want to go looking for it. You have to do the legwork.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 12:03 PM MST
State law allows union bargaining sessions to be done behind closed doors for obvious reasons. Once a contract is settled it is a public document and you can compare one contract to the next and see what concessions there were.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, April 01 2006 @ 12:08 PM MST
So can we assume you are upset by Paul Esslinger signing a confidentiality agreement with the guy from 5 Rivers?
As I read all the contributions to the Bus Driver Wage posting, I keep wondering how many other areas in city and county government might be managed so poorly.
All you hear at City Council and County Board meetings is how all the budgets need to be tightened even further as Madison funding keeps declining.
Then, when citizens present common-sense suggestions such as instituting wage freezes and investigating healthcare option and benefit reductions the first comments are...UNION!
The City Council, County Board and School Board seem to be held hostage if you believe all that rhetoric.
I am NOT against unions. Unions have fought big business and created the middle class.
My issue is that when private sector jobs are in a declining state. Wages are stagnant and benefits are being reduced, those that hold taxpayer-funded jobs must also come to the realization that they must also mirror what’s happening in the private sector.
It's really simple math. Taxpayer’s jobs have been downsized and outsourced. Taxpayers find other employment at lower compensation and therefore have less money. Those that make a living on taxpayer contributions (city employees) must also make less money.
All those at the bargaining table would do themselves and their fellow taxpayers a favor if they recognized this and bargained accordingly.
The citizens of Oshkosh can not continue to pay city employees higher wages than the they themselves make.
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
City Employee Wages & Benefits
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 11:08 AM MST
Hey, this guys right on. Whoever you are YOU should be running for
city council. I would vote for you!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 12:13 PM MST
Does the poster realize that in this state there is binding arbitration ?
Also citizens/taxpayers demand services to be carried out even though number of employees has been cut.. Like garbage collection. plowing and maintaining of streets, etc. So Dennis McHugh can try and get a hiring freeze for the city of Oshkosh but if that means longer time to plow streets after a snowstorm or to pick up garbage, the original poster should not complain. The city council and school board can ask and demand all they want -the point is binding arbitration is the law in this state for public employees. One must give up something to get something from another.
When you cut personnel you cut service. The private sector is only answerable to whomever owns the business and the motive for them is $$$. That is why companies who lose money downsize and then give executives bonuses.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 12:24 PM MST
Bingo! Government is not the same as the private sector. The private sector cuts jobs because they don't remain competetive selling whatever it is they are selling. Don't count out automation! The ability for robots and computers to replace workers has had a large impact on jobs cuts recently.
The term 'outsourcing' comes up often in discussions like this. A company cuts jobs to send work out of the area, as they can be more cost effective in producing their goods.
Public sector jobs cannot be outsourced! If you want your garbage picked up, your toilet to flush, your streets to be plowed, the police to show up when you call, etc, you need to pay people to do it. The unions are in place to protect the wages and the working conditions of those employees. They obviously do a good job.
Employees are not going to take pay cuts. Further, I doubt arbitrators are going to 'award' pay cuts to cities. We live in the days of 'quid pro quo,' as much as you hate to hear that. If a case goes to arbitration, and the city is asking the union to give something up, they have to offer something in return of equal value-- time off, incentives, something!
This is the way that it works. I know it makes some of you MAD, but it's life. Truly, tho, our city employees really earn a living wage, and we should not be dissatisfied with that. If you're jealous, seek out the jobs of the nearly 700 people who work for the city and apply to become one yourself!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 03:14 PM MST
More than a living wage...there are no competitive forces to bring these wages/benefits down to market levels. A good reason why we need more accountability in government leadership. A lot of government positions are no more than a form of welfare.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 04:11 PM MST
The only wage quoted so far is the bus drivers. I have done some looking around various websites to see what other cities are paying. Unfortunately, there is not a lot of information.
I can tell you that BARGAINING, even way before arbitration, uses both internal and external comparables to determine the 'competetive wage' for the area. The competetive forces are other municipalities. Look at most of the jobs! There is no private sector equivalent and so wages are based on what other communites pay for the same job.
I can think of garbage collection as one of the only city provided services that has a private equivalent. What else is there? There isn't street maintenance, or water distribution workers, there aren't police officers or firefighters or wastewater treatment plant operators. How do cities compare? They guage their contracts by what other cities are doing!
I looked into the bus driving information, and the original poster was correct: the starting wage for a bus driver in Oshkosh is $18 an hour. We have no idea that the other wages listed are correct. The poster chose to remain anonymous and therefore the info cannot be corraborated.
To the person who is sick of the quid pro quo, arbitration, step increases, etc, I have this to say: fact of life. It's the way things operate. They are brought up to enlighten you to the way government works. You don't have to like it. You do have to accept that it is there, and that's how contracts are bargained.
Lastly, for the record, there is NO "cost of living increase" provided to ANY city employee. The only raises ever given are those bargained in the contracts; they are in line with cities like ours, and they are across the board for all city employees.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 07:59 PM MST
Some very good points on both sides as to the reality of the situation. The fact that there are few public sector comparables for many city (government) employees is part of the problem. Our cities bargaining is based on other cities, who base their's on others, etc. etc. If one cities employee union scores a big wage increase, it's a domino effect for everyone else. This has been the way things HAVE worked and work now. But......
Unions have continued to lose their power over the last 30 years. I'm sure many would have never thought that the mighty UAW would have ever gotten to a stage where they would accept wage decreases and benefit reductions, but those days have come. The free market system WILL eventually reach government employees. The current system is under stress and eventually will break.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, March 26 2006 @ 11:33 AM MST
"To the person who is sick of the quid pro quo, arbitration, step
increases, etc, I have this to say: fact of life. It's the way things
operate. They are brought up to enlighten you to the way government
works. You don't have to like it. You do have to accept that it is there,
and that's how contracts are bargained."
It's clear to me that many of these comments come from City
employees themselves.
If I were a City employee, I would want to make a case for my
position too. But wrong is wrong no matter how much "lipstick you put
on that pig!"
Some positions certain can justify the wage they earn. Police officers
must have criminal justices degrees and many hundreds of hours of
schooling.
Firefighter have similar requirements.
What is the requirement for a BUS DRIVER? A CDL? Big deal,
anybody can get one of those with little trouble (look at all the school
bus drivers)
Going back to the other post...I just can't support a bus driver starting
wage at $18.05. THAT IS JUST WRONG!
In another post, someone mentioned a Winnebago County Receptionist
compensated at $50,000. Have you looked in the paper classifieds at
the going wage rate for a receptionist lately? I challenge you to show
me a position like that in the PRIVATE SECTOR that would be above
$30,000!
Things have gotta change.
EXTENSIVE Investigation needs to occur.
I believe when this is done, and the light of truth shines on our public
sector (city, county, school system) wage and benefits package, a
citizen revolt just may occur!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, March 26 2006 @ 12:43 PM MST
I am just stating the facts: quid pro quo and binding arbitration are LAWS. The city has no way around them when bargaining contracts. You don't like it-- that's fine. But when you make your arguments, you need to understand that these are in place, and the city has to play by the rules. You can't ignore these ideas and then cry foul! The city has to play by the rules in place.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, March 26 2006 @ 12:57 PM MST
The city can lay people off if there are no other options. When faced with the possibility of job losses and/or being overworked and understaffed, one would hope the union would not be so pig-headed as to be unwilling to compromise for the greater good. The union can make compromises if it chooses. They just have not shown a willingness to do that. So lay people off and if the others can't manage the work load replace them and find someone who can. Stop trying to make everything so damn complicated. This should be about working together, not each side digging in their heels and not budging.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, March 26 2006 @ 03:33 PM MST
The unions have compromised for the greater good. You don't have the inside information to know if that is the case or not. I am telling you it has happened.
You may not like what has happened in the past. You have a means to take care of that-- at the polls in April.
It's unfortunate that a bus driver wage suddenly makes all of the city workers lazy pigs. They work their butts off to provide excellent service to this city.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, March 27 2006 @ 05:59 AM MST
OUTSTANDING.......
PERFECTLY STATED!!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, March 27 2006 @ 06:50 AM MST
"The city can lay people off if there are no other options. When faced with the possibility of job losses and/or being overworked and understaffed, one would hope the union would not be so pig-headed as to be unwilling to compromise for the greater good. The union can make compromises if it chooses. They just have not shown a willingness to do that. So lay people off and if the others can't manage the work load replace them and find someone who can. Stop trying to make everything so damn complicated. This should be about working together, not each side digging in their heels and not budging."
Well said!!
This is not at all complicated. We just need council members and city administrators with some guts to do what needs doing!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, March 27 2006 @ 02:05 PM MST
It all starts with city staff and our personnel department. He is the one negotiating these contracts.
He is on record as saying the city is getting a good deal to have employees pay 5% of the health insurance premiums. It is that attitude that is driving our taxes through the roof. He needs to know he is working for the tax payers and not the public employees. The council needs to dictate to city staff, not the other way around.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, March 27 2006 @ 02:07 PM MST
I agree 100% with this comment. We are in the driver's seat, not the other way around. Or we need to be anyway.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 12:58 PM MST
It's always easy to pick on Public Employees isn't it? We're all a bunch of lazy folks living off the public tax money and not earning our pay. Ride a garbage truck one day or work out on 41 patching blacktop and tell me if you still feel that way.
Just wondering, does the person who recommended laying employees off realize that reductions in the workforce are going to mean reductions in service? Why do you think the State Revenue Department wants you to file your taxes online or by phone. So they don't have to have as many employees. They used to hire HUNDREDS of temps to open tax returns. The next time you're standing in line at the DVM, don't blame it on the folks behind the desk, blame it on "CUTS TO THE WORKFORCE". Of course, you can get around that by going to a gas station and taking care of your license renewal, but, I'm not giving my personal information to someone at a Quiky Mart.
Also, just for the record binding arbitration is in place for city and county employees but not ALL public employees in the state. State employees do not have Binding Arbitration.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 04:23 PM MST
You know...when you're employed, you often think you are not
replaceable. Reality comes to the rescue as you see a company move
along in your absence just as though you never existed.
We are all replaceable!
I am certain that 10-20% of our 700 city employees could be
dismissed and the city would churn along nicely. The only question
would be where those 10-20% come from.
Geez..if the garbage men can complete there jobs in 3 hours if they
run, maybe we really don't need them all??
Geez..if bus routes are only 20% utilized (empty buses) maybe we
can reduce our entire routes (employees) by 5-10%
Geez.. If we could merge some departments, maybe we could
eliminate some middlemanager positions.
Gees.. I'm only getting warmed up people. I could maybe think of
dozens of ways we might lower our total headcount, keep services to
an excepted level and reduce taxes.
Help me out...who has more ideas?
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 06:52 PM MST
Good ideas. I don't think the garbage men complete their routes in 3 hours, however. More like 6 and a half during 'slower' times of the year. I am sure around Christmas and during spring cleaning times, the routes take much longer. Personally I don't think this is an area that can be cut.
Cutting bus routes is an interesting idea. Studies show, however, that it is lower income citizens who use buses for transportation. If you cut the bus routes, you actually harm the community because you limit a poor person's ability to get to work. If they can't get to work they don't stay employed, which ends up costing tax payers more because of unemployment benefits that must be paid.
The library hours were cut significantly last year to help with budget constraints. Should we limit the library even more?
Previous posts talked about plowing tertiary streets only during business hours. If the snow storm happens on a weekend and you don't live on a main drag, you might have to wait till Monday to get plowed out. That would save thousands in overtime costs.
What about the parks dept? I am not very familiar with their operations, but certainly there must be areas where cuts can be made.
Let's reduce some of the ridiculous permits that are required in the city. We certainly need building permits and inspections that go along with them, but there are some frivolous areas that require permits. Examples are building permits for driveways or patios, and please, do away with the pool permit idea. Less permits require fewer inspections, reducing the workload on city staff.
Lastly, there is always concern about public safety cuts, but what about cutting some of the non-essential services provided by the police department? Parking violations, civil issues, fireworks complaints and the like could all be removed from calls the police department will respond to. This will decrease the need for patrol officers and positions there could be eliminated. I wonder if similar situations could be found within the fire dept.
There are some ideas. The bottom line is, if you cut positions, you cut services. Are you willing to make that trade off? It's a tough question, but one that has to be asked.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 06:12 AM MST
I cannot tell if the last post was tongue in cheek or not! Since there are all these "wonderful" ideas on how to save money and lower our expectations as to the level of service, why don't we just go ahead and shut the street lights off. Citizens of London did this during World War II so we should be able to get by in these hard times. If you need to drive; your vehicle has headlamps, use them. If you walk, use a flashlight. Why should I pay for "your" light? Hey, how about all those police squads. If we put 4 cops in one car then we can reduce the number of police squads by 3/4. Wow, would that save on the gas bill. Let's also do away with garbage collection altogether. After all, why should we pay for the over-consumption of goods. Oh of course, since Neenah-Menasha combined their Fire Departments, why don't we just join them. After all, Oshkosh has never had any fires have we? . . . . (well OK, the fires did not kill EVERYONE in the city when they roared through Oshkosh).
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 06:49 AM MST
Nope, as the author, I can tell you these were not tongue in cheek. You ask for ways to cut our city's costs-- I offered some. Where else are we going to cut all this money everyone is demanding?
"I want to lower my taxes, but I refuse to accept a reduction in service!" You can't have your cake and eat it, too!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, April 02 2006 @ 06:38 PM MDT
I totally agree with this person. I do not begrudge city or county worker their fair due. They work hard and deserve to earn a decent wage. But don't the rest of us also? When local government keeps forcing us to pay more every time we turn around, something has to give. There are too many things stretching our checkbook. What is so difficult for some of you folks to see about that?
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, April 03 2006 @ 06:18 AM MDT
"You are correct in most of what you say.
Summed up, it's like this: A union is ALWAYS only as strong as a company (or city) allows it to be.
The owners/managers at AxleTech had guts. The City Council, the dept managers, and the negotiators for the City don't have guts. They don't understand unions or negotiations, most probably quake in their boots at the mention of the word "union". They will roll over and play dead."
God, I hope our city staff and Ed Nokes has guts!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, April 04 2006 @ 11:26 AM MDT
UNION MENTALITY.............
Available on the Post Cresent Web Site, Business section..
Arlen Boardman column:
GM union playing a crippling role in company's problems
It's unfortunate what's happening to General Motors Corp. and Delphi Corp. workers, but those workers — and more specifically, their United Auto Workers union — must share fully in the blame for what has happened.
What has happened is that Delphi, formerly part of GM and still tied through worker benefit responsibilities, and GM have been brought to their economic knees by a combination of factors. Delphi has filed for bankruptcy and many expert observers think GM might be forced to do the same this year.
There's no doubt that those running GM made mistakes, which have contributed mightily to its dramatic loss in market share, from half the U.S. auto market several years ago to about 24 percent now, and its employment from 457,000 factory workers in 1985 to 113,000 now.
These mistakes include relying too much on high-powered vehicles that consume much now-expensive gasoline and not developing lines of low-cost operating vehicles that could compete with Toyota and other manufacturers.
GM has complained that it needs the high-profit vehicles to support its expensive labor costs, as well as its legacy costs — pension and retiree health benefits. The total hourly cost for a GM factory worker, including wages and fringes, is about $73, a U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission filing showed.
GM's troubles have been well documented in the media, but it perhaps was its record $10.6 billion loss for 2005 and the well-publicized pressure of its largest shareholder's displeasure that may have triggered the unprecedented employee buyout and early-retirement program.
The buyout program is generous by historical standards, giving workers with at least 30 years service a $36,000 (full) pension and full retirement health care for quitting, and a $35,000 one-time payment.
Younger workers with fewer years could get up to a $140,000 lump sum.
Getting labor costs under control isn't the answer to all GM's problems, but it's a critical part of the solution.
There is no way GM can compete no matter how wonderful its vehicles are if its cost per vehicle is forced up thousands of dollars by labor costs that far outstrip its competitors' labor costs.
Driving back from Milwaukee last month, I listened to Frank Emspak, an associate professor of the University of Wisconsin Extension School for Workers, a pro-union labor operation, lament on Wisconsin Public Radio about the impending demise of the lucrative GM labor and benefits level. He promised manufacturing wage and benefit cutbacks would spread to other manufacturers.
I don't know if that will happen, but I believe that Emspak was disingenuous when he said the UAW and its members were merely victims of this GM disaster. He said they had no power to control what GM did in vehicle development and marketing, which is true. But to suggest they were merely victims doesn't do justice to the pressure in the name of more and more benefits that the UAW put on GM management for the past several decades.
Their constant demands and threats of crippling strikes kept GM managers from making the decisions to keep GM competitive. Whether the succession of managers would have made the right decisions, if there were no pressure, of course, is debatable.
This is an economic disaster for GM, but not for the nation, its working people or even the auto industry. It's a disaster created by arrogant managers and greedy UAW employees, who together sacrificed GM's future.
The UAW has acquiesced to this buyout offer, but these latest developments haven't made the UAW toothless yet. The Wall Street Journal recently reported that GM has been edgy that car parts maker Delphi might ask the bankruptcy court to vacate its UAW contract (which it did last week) and trigger a Delphi strike, which would shut down GM assembly lines for lack of parts.
That's the mentality that got GM in trouble in the first place.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, April 04 2006 @ 12:14 PM MDT
Hummmm……..
City Employee Unions and the UAW
Some interesting similarities. Even though this is private vs. public sector.
“Getting labor costs under control isn't the answer to all GM's problems, but it's a critical part of the solution.”
Getting labor costs under control isn't the answer to all OSHKOSHCITY problems, but it's a critical part of the solution.
“There is no way GM can compete no matter how wonderful its vehicles are if it’s cost per vehicle is forced up thousands of dollars by labor costs that far outstrip its competitors' labor costs.”
There is no way OSHKOSH TAXPAYERS can TOLORATE ADDITIONAL PROPERTY TAXES no matter how wonderful its CITY SERVICES are if it’s cost per SERVICE is forced up thousands of dollars by labor costs…..
“I don't know if that will happen, but I believe that Emspak was disingenuous when he said the UAW and its members were merely victims of this GM disaster. He said they had no power to control what GM did in vehicle development and marketing, which is true. But to suggest they were merely victims doesn't do justice to the pressure in the name of more and more benefits that the UAW put on GM management for the past several decades.”
I don't know if that will happen, but I believe that COMMENTS POSTED BY CITY UNION MEMBERS was disingenuous when he said the THE CITY OF OSHKOSH UNION and its members were merely victims of this CITY FINANCIAL disaster. He said they had no power to control what OSHKOSH did in CITY development and marketing, which is true. But to suggest they were merely victims doesn't do justice to the pressure in the name of more and more benefits that the CITY EMPLOYEES put on OSHKOSH TAXPAYERS for the past several decades.
“Their constant demands and threats of crippling strikes kept GM managers from making the decisions to keep GM competitive.”
Their constant demands and threats of crippling ARBITRATION kept OSHKOSH CITY managers AND NOGOTIATORS from making the decisions to keep OSHKOSH competitive.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, April 04 2006 @ 12:29 PM MDT
This says it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder what the total compensation package is for city workers such as the bus drivers or garbage men?
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 05 2006 @ 11:00 PM MDT
Good question! Why don't you get off your lazy butt and find out if you're so curious, instead of just complaining about it!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 06 2006 @ 06:11 AM MDT
No need to stress Mr.City Employee.
We public sector employees have been experiencing layoff, wage reductions, wage freezes, job eliminations, benefit reductions etc etc etc for along time now.
Check out the news at KC and Mercury Marine today.
Hey, I guess it might be time for you guys to experience what the real world is feeling and crawl out from behind that Union/Public Sector shield you've been behind for so long.
BTW. You will survive. Just get rid of some of the toys that you've enjoyed (boats, SUV's ATV's Snowmobiles, stuff like that) You can live on less if you downsize your lifestyle.
Just a friendly word to the wise from one worker to another.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 06 2006 @ 11:46 AM MDT
Doesn't sound very FRIENDLY! Instead of pulling everyone down with you, you may want to re-evaluate your career choices. If the public sector employees have it soooooooooo great, why don't you apply for a position? There is certainly a lot of talk about how great they have it, compared to the private sector. The grass is always greener . . .
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 06 2006 @ 12:55 PM MDT
Apply for what? They will be cutting positions not adding them.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 06 2006 @ 01:03 PM MDT
Again,
No need to stress Mr.City Employee.
I've heard that many of the KC guys are trading in their F-250's.
The Kia dealership is getting really busy!
Learn to live on less.
Just a bit of friendly advice.
A fellow laborer and Oshkosh taxpayer and homeowner.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 06 2006 @ 07:36 PM MDT
As a city worker, I am not worried. I am aware of the current economic status and yet I am confident the city and the union will bargain a contract that is fair to both the city and the union in the current economic market. If the city decides they need to to cut positions, so be it. These are most likely to be done as attrition cuts and not layoffs. I can only work so many hours a week, and my tasks will simply be geared towards items deemed most important to the city.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 06 2006 @ 07:59 PM MDT
It is outstanding to hear a common sense remark that represents a
true understanding that the current level of pay and benefits clearly
needs renogotiation.
Yes it is true the city will likely bargain a fair contract that will
nodoubt have job losses through attrition. This is a good approach.
Unfortunately we could employ two workers earning $9.00 an hour for
the one bus driver we now employ earning $18.00 an hour.
It is all economics. Market supply and demand. The market can't
justify bus drivers at $18.00 an hour when the labor force could
provide willing and able workers quite easily for $12-$15 plus the
wonderful city benefits.
I am certain a new contract will be arrived at and most will be happy.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 06 2006 @ 08:24 PM MDT
You see tho, you can't hire them at 12-15 bucks an hour. The current contract, a LEGAL document, says if you hire a bus driver, you have to pay them 18 per hour. I know, I know, contracts are being negotiated, but please, do you really think an arbitrator is going to allow a 3-6 dollar pay cut without some major concessions by the city? Not on your life.
By the way, in no way did I indicate that "the current level of pay and benefits clearly needs renogotiation." I guess one could argue that happens every time a contract is neogiated, but with the exception of the bus driving wage, no one has shown ANY evidence that any city employees are "overcompensated." Please stop trying to put words in my mouth. You do a lousy job of it.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 07 2006 @ 06:06 AM MDT
For someone who is so confident, due to the legal standing of union contracts, you certainly seem a bit tense and stressed. I just attempt to paint a picture that you don't want to look at. You and your union brothers may infact skate through the next contact with another hefty wage and benefit filled bucket of taxpayer funding, but I'm just attempting to place a mattress on the ground for a softer fall in the event that doesn't happen. Have a great weekend!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 07 2006 @ 06:45 AM MDT
What's your mattress made out of? Concrete? We are all aware of the current climates in both politics and money. We are aware of health care issues and changes that have recently occurred. We have dialogue with city officials on changes on the horizon.
But you come out here with no clue of what happens between the city and its unions and grandstand about how our union will fail, how we're overpaid, and how there is no comparison for public employees when bargaining contracts. Please! You have absolutely no idea how the city bargaining process works. NONE! You don't even know who the city's negotiator is! And you're "padding my fall?" Do a little more homework before you try to save me from the heartache of lost wages, benefits, and coworkers.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 07 2006 @ 07:04 AM MDT
I feel your pain Mr. City Employee. I and many of my friends have been impacted by corporate downsizing and wage reductions.
I my case, I never saw it coming. One day I was summoned into a conference. There sat the division VP, corporate HR director and plant manager. I was told that my work was excellent, but the corporation was moving in another direction and my job was terminated. All this after 25 years of service. So again, I feel your pain.
If I would have had the opportunity to have my pay reduced, my vacation time reduced, some of my benefits reduced, just to maintain my job, I would have gladly done that. BUT that was not offered. No nogotiation...just after 25 years Im not needed any longer. Im no fool, they can replace me with somebody that would work for half as much with a third less benefits. Thats the way corporate America works these days.
What I suggest is that you and your union brothers take a page from my play book. Be willing to accept pay and benefit cuts to maintain your jobs.
At least you might have the option...I didn't.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 07 2006 @ 10:44 AM MDT
well if thats corporate america it totally sucks. that is what everybody that voted for bush got us. bush is like totally big business and big oil. its like so obvious that all the perks go to corporations and alotta them are there with hands open. look at halleburton and dead-eye dick cheney. some democrats are no better. truth is both major parties really suck. maybe we workers should revolt and like demand change. now we got all these mexicans flooding into america an working for pennies and that sets the bar way to low to support any familys for the rest of us. like who is a corporation gonna hire to do regular labor? mexicans that work for like $1.00 an hour or a american citizen with a family that needs $15.00 just to keep the kids fed. it all really sucks. I got no sympathy for the guys in unions at like GM and stuff tho because they are so NOT worth $75.00 wages and bennies to put wheels on cars. thats whats wrong. it all is either overpaid or underpaid. like the guy said 18.00 is way to much for a bus driver to make
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, April 09 2006 @ 09:12 AM MDT
I call on each of our council representatives to make this a priority
issue as the new council is seated. We need to find out who's right on
this. Are our city employees paid below, at or above average wages
for similar positions in other communitys. Do we need all of our
current staffing at the levels we have now? Could we cut back? Are
there some areas that need more? If so, what is the hard
justification. And just what is up with that whole bus driver thing?
We need a big push on this issue and we need it soon!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 05 2006 @ 01:06 PM MDT
Gee, I thought the theme was city workers are getting benefits that NO ONE in the private sector sees... guess that wasn't true now was it?
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, April 04 2006 @ 03:13 PM MDT
Hmmmmmmmm . . . Where were all these people that are NOW concerned about public sector worker's wages when the PRIVATE sector was growing by leaps and bounds in the 90s and the Public Sector was getting small increases. Interesting.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, April 04 2006 @ 03:20 PM MDT
Forget about the wages, it is in the benefit packages where the problems lie. And, yes, services will be cut. We can no longer afford the level of service we are accustomed to. If the TPA passes you will not believe how the level of services will be cut.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, April 04 2006 @ 06:33 PM MDT
Just remember that when you cannot get out of your driveway during the next snow storm.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, April 04 2006 @ 09:22 PM MDT
Hey as it is most of the time now you shovel your driveway and the plows come by and close it up with all the crap from the street anyway.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 05 2006 @ 05:51 AM MDT
If I have to wait a while to get out of my driveway in order to make significant changes to the city employee benefit package and a hard look at wages that may be out of line (BUS DRIVERS $18.05 STARTING PAY) I, and many of my friends are willing to do that. If the city union doesn't understand this, then we as community citizens will have to do the heavy lifting and deal with less services to get things changed. Its really to bad that it has to be this way though. I say bring it on. Oftentimes difficult times require sacrifice and I'm willing to do my part.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 05 2006 @ 08:38 AM MDT
My driveway does not get plowed until the afternoon anyway, so I have dealt with the poor service for the past few years. We as citizens will have to give up some services. We simply can not afford the status quo.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 05 2006 @ 11:31 AM MDT
I hope Paul Esslinger and Dennis McHugh will make this issue a priotity as they begin their new term.
Oshkosh taxpeyers can not afford the current wage and benefit package city employees currently enjoy.
Head count, wage and benefit conditions for both Union and non-union employees need be deep evaluation. Cuts and reductions should follow.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 05 2006 @ 05:59 PM MDT
Yep...wage and benefit cuts should follow, even tho you only know one wage of any of the city empoloyees. Wonderful.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 05 2006 @ 06:42 PM MDT
Benefits, benefits, benefits, that is where we need to look.
City Employee Wages & Benefits
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 12:38 PM MST
"The citizens of Oshkosh can not continue to pay city employees higher wages than the they themselves make"
Compared to what? Stocking shelves at Wal Mart?
There are a lot of professionals that work for the city performing tasks that they went to school for years for. I went to school for 5 years post high school to obtain my training to work for the city. I should, and do, earn a wage comparable to what other employees in similar sized cities do. That's fair. I shouldn't make less just because a taxpayer does. I am a taxpayer too!
Cities HAVE to pay competetive wages-- if they don't, their employees will work in the private sector, and most likely will make MORE money than they do for the city. How does the city keep these people around? A good benefit package.
There isn't a city employee who doesn't make a wage that is similar to another employee in a similar city. That's how contracts are bargained. You pay in Oshkosh the same that other cities pay.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 12:58 PM MST
"There isn't a city employee who doesn't make a wage that is similar
to another employee in a similar city. That's how contracts are
bargained. You pay in Oshkosh the same that other cities pay."
HOW OSHKOSH COMPARES.....
BUS DRIVERS WAGES
Waukesha $12.30
Duluth $13.16
Racine $13.46
Merrill $13.61
Green Bay $13.66
Eau Claire $13.79
Manitowoc $13.96
Sheboygan $14.07
Wausau $14.51
La Crosse $14.80
Kenosha $15.17
Fond du Lac$15.24
Oshkosh $18.05
OK..lets pay the bus drivers a Fond du lac wage. That should help!
Thanks for offering!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 01:06 PM MST
I didn't read the article, but are you sure they are comparing apples to apples? Are all of those wages at the same point in the pay scale? I doubt it. Come on, it came from the Northwestern. Do you believe anything in there?
The ONLY wage that has been quoted in this whole argument has been bus drivers. What about other employment positions? No one seems to be too excited to dig those numbers up.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 03:11 PM MST
This is one of the best posts I've seen...EVER on this board. I'm sick to death of hearing about "binding arbitration"..."quid pro quo"..."step increases"..."cost of living increases". Thank you for stating so nicely how many of us feel.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, March 26 2006 @ 11:09 AM MST
I couldn't agree more.
How do we go about getting a complete acurate record of how much
each department classification is compensated?
Is this a part of "open records"?
I would ask CHERYL HENTZ the owner of this web site and host of the
OCAT show to look into this and produce a investigative segment on
her program.
I guarantee, with promotion and advance notice that segment would
be one of the highest watched shows that eventing...network or
otherwise!
There is a huge segment of out community that feels our fellow public
service employees (City, County, School Board) are PERHAPS highly
overcompensated.
Lets find out the truth!!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 12:43 PM MST
It's not a big dark secret folks.....
I'm sure if you went to the library or City Hall, they would tell you how to get information on how much city employees make because it is part of the public record.
I work for the University and my earnings are published in the University Budget Red Book and online for the entire world to see.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 04:14 PM MST
Thanks for the "heads up"...but please don't keep that important
information to yourself. Please share it.
Exactly where in the librarys reference section might we find that
information?
Thank you in advance.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 08:56 AM MST
Oh boy, this should be fodder for trough.
Here's the online link to the UW System budget.
http://www.uwsa.edu/budplan/redbook
Eat it up!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 10:59 AM MST
Lets stay on point people.
This whole issue came about as a result of another posting string called TRANSIT WORKERS (Bus Driver)
I think the original posting was that a classified article in the paper showed the bus drivers in Oshkosh have a starting wage of $18.00 an hour.
Then, somehow other Cities were polled and it was discovered that Oshkosh was the highest paid, and by quite a margin.
This information made me and many others sit up and take notice.
I thank that original poster for uncovering this little know fact.
Now that we know at least ONE Position within the 700 employee pool of personnel is certainly in need of dramatic wage reduction adjustments, there may be others.
Lets not get swept up with the UW system or even County governement yet...lets focus on Oshkosh.
Call you council members, contact Cheryl Hentz, write the Northwestern, contact WOSH.....ever effort should be made to bring city employee compensation in-line with REAL LIFE.
Layoff and downsize if necessary. If we as a city can't survive with less services, then we can post job openings at a far reduced wage/benefit package...IF WE CAN'T make due with less.
One way or another this bloated overpaid personnel situation must be addressed.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 11:30 AM MST
Nice try. A couple of points, tho.
1) With the contract in place, the city CANNOT lay people off and then post the positions for far less. The unions, thank God, have a clause in their contract that say employees working within a certain department must be paid at the contract wage. So much for that idea.
2) One person reads the want ads and all of a sudden we have a"bloated overpaid personnel situation." What a laugher.
YOU are the reason we have unions and contracts.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 12:45 PM MST
You don't post the positions for less. Instead you don't fill them. Let the highest paid with the most seniority gluttons who aren't willing to really negotiate and have room for give and take work their a-s-s-e-s off.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 01:05 PM MST
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 12:45 PM MST
You don't post the positions for less. Instead you don't fill them. Let the highest paid with the most seniority gluttons who aren't willing to really negotiate and have room for give and take work their a-s-s-e-s off.
OUTSTANDING Reply!
Another "thinking outside the box" thought.
Seems our fellow Union PUBLIC SECTOR employees need to watch CNN and see what's going on in France.
Finally the totally far left French are coming to realize that nobodys job should be without scrutiny.
There is no such thing as a "job for life".
Weed out the overpaid, overcompensated employees.
The citizens of Oshkosh can't continue to tolorate the ever increased spending on wages and benefits, when the jobs clearly don't justify the compensation.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 01:58 PM MST
Everyone keeps posting on here, with an occasional emphasis on 'overpaid, overcompensated employees.' The two bits of information that are lacking here are:
1) Which employees are overpaid? All of them?
and
2) How do we know they're overpaid? The only reference to any amount any position makes is a bus driver. Are you simply assuming ALL city employees are over paid? Without facts, well, you know what assuming makes you look like...
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 02:09 PM MST
When employees are only contributing a small amount to their healthcare in comparison to the private sector, that shows overcompensation and is something we can't keep affording. Consider that ALL represented city employees.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 02:18 PM MST
"Everyone keeps posting on here, with an occasional emphasis on 'overpaid, overcompensated employees.' The two bits of information that are lacking here are:
1) Which employees are overpaid? All of them?
and
2) How do we know they're overpaid? The only reference to any amount any position makes is a bus driver. Are you simply assuming ALL city employees are over paid? Without facts, well, you know what assuming makes you look like..."
As a current City Employee....do you agree that the one employee classification we know of (bus drivers) are overcompensated?
What say you??
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 02:32 PM MST
Judging by the comments I think the answer is YES
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 30 2006 @ 04:24 PM MST
Here is some actual hard fact data.
Taken from the U.S. Department of Labor web site.
www.bls.gov
National estimates for this occupation:
Bus Drivers, Transit and Intercity.
Employment estimate and mean wage estimates for this occupation:
Mean (average)hourly wage: $15.27
Mean (average)annual wage: $31,750
OSHKOSH BUS DRIVERS ARE OVER COMPENSATED!!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, April 01 2006 @ 10:31 AM MST
Here is data collected from the US Department of Labor Website
This data is specific to Wisconsin.
SOS Code 33-2011 - Fire Fighters
Median Hourly Wage - $15.19
SOS Code 33-2011 - Fire Inspectors & Investigators
Median Hourly Wage - $20.94
SOS Code 33-3021 - Dectectives & Criminal Investigators
Median Hourly Wage - $25.40
SOS Code 33-3051 - Police & Sheriffs Patrol Officers
Median Hourly Wage - $21.41
SOS Code 33-9091 - Crossing Guards
Media Hourly Wage - $10.32
SOS Code 37-3013 - Tree Trimmers & Pruners
Median Hourly Wage - $13.58
SOS Code 43-5032 - Police, Fire & Ambulance Dispatchers
Median Hourly Wage - $16.25
SOS Code 43-1011 - Supervisors/Managers of Office & Administrative
Support Workers
Median Hourly Wage - $19.96
SOS Code 43-3031 - Bookkeeping Accounting and Auditing Clerks
Median Hourly Wage - $13.38
SOS Code 43-4081 - File Clerks
Median Hourly Wage - $10.58
SOS Code 43-4171 - Receptionists & Information Clerks
Median Hourly Wage - $10.85
SOS Code 43-9021 -Data Entry Keyers
Median Hourly Wage - $10.86
SOS Code 49-3031 - Bus & Truck Mechanics & Diesel Engine
Specialists
Median Hourly Wage - $16.72
SOS Code 53-3021 - Bus Drivers, Transit & Intercity
Median Hourly Wage - $15.20
Just a short list of some average wages for public sector workers in
Wisconsin.
I wonder how Oshkosh employees compare?
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, April 01 2006 @ 11:28 AM MST
What benefits have they been offered? Health, Dental, Disability (remember, fighting fires is dangerous work) and then compare. It has to be done as a complete package in order to properly evaluate and classify any worker as "overpaid".
I know that the some city workers get paid more than in other cities. BUT they have given up benefits to get that wage. If you are going to criticize, make sure it is the WHOLE story. Not just a small part.
Have a happy April 1st!!
K Monte
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, April 01 2006 @ 12:06 PM MST
Paying 5% of the premium is NOT reasonable in this economy Mr. Monte.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, April 01 2006 @ 11:54 AM MST
Informative. Please note this data is 2 years old, taken from 2004.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, April 01 2006 @ 12:08 PM MST
It will be more beneficial to look at pay comparisons for those employed in the northeastern part of Wisconsin, not the State as a whole. The follwing link will provide you with pay comparisons for the Valley. This is important because we need to compare ourselves to cities with similar cost of living situations. It really doesn't pay to compare us to cost of living in Madison (much higher) or Racine (much lower).
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_0460.htm
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, April 02 2006 @ 10:05 AM MDT
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_0460.htm
Great Information!
I urge everyone to contact each member of our Common Council and
express your concern regarding the compensation of City Employees.
During union bargaining nogotiations, be need to insure that our
elected council members DIRECT city administrators to take a fair, but
HARD LINE stance on wage increases and benefit improvements.
I often cringe when I hear the term "we live on a fixed
income"...MANY Oshkosh private sector employees I know would love
to say that. The truth is, due to economic and current business
culture conditions, MANY people I know are living not on fixed
incomes....but on DECLINING incomes!
Oshkosh residents can not afford to pay additional property taxes for
increased wealth of city employees.
Obvious totally out-of-line compensation such as the bus drivers needs
immediate adjustment!
Each and every position and classification needs scrutiny. From our
City Manager right down to a entry level clerk.
CONTACT YOUR COUNCIL MEMBERS....AND REMEMBER TO VOTE!
To contact William Castle Jr.:
(920) 426-7309
1125 Hazel Street
Oshkosh, WI 54901
To contact Frank Tower:
ftower@ci.oshkosh.wi.us
(920) 426-2405
To contact Paul J. Esslinger:
(920) 426-9750
2350 High Oak Drive
Oshkosh, WI 54902
To contact Shirley Brabender Mattox:
sbrabendermattox@ci.oshkosh.wi.us
(920) 233-2833
1313 Jackson Street
Oshkosh, WI 54901
To contact Burk Tower:
btower@ci.oshkosh.wi.us
(920) 426-3236
933 Starboard Court
Oshkosh, WI 54901
To contact Bryan L. Bain:
bbain@ci.oshkosh.wi.us
(920) 651-9329
To contact Meredith Scheuermann:
mscheuermann@ci.oshkosh.wi.us
(920) 426-8073
3060 Mockingbird Way
Oshkosh, WI 54904
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 30 2006 @ 11:22 AM MST
Union workers take heed........
News from the auto industry -
DETROIT - Auto supplier Delphi Corp. is expected to ask a federal judge to cancel its union contracts Friday. Delphi had set a deadline of Thursday to reach an agreement with its unions and General Motors Corp. that would lower wages for its 34,000 U.S. hourly workers. The UAW, which represents the majority of Delphi’s hourly workers, reacted angrily this week to Delphi’s latest proposal, which calls for lowering workers’ wages from $27 an hour to $16.50 an hour in 2007. If GM doesn’t agree to supplement workers’ pay, wages would fall to $12.50 an hour for production workers the UAW said.
Our economy nationwide, and even more importantly local can't afford your high wages and benefits.
As the middleclass shrinks, all courtesy of the Right wing Republican (big business) Party, fewer people are left with the ability to afford your products and services.
You, as City of Oshkosh public sector employees must be prepared to face future wage and benefit reductions or layoffs and downsizing if you don't restructure your negotiation tactics.
Prepare to live with less. Many in the private sector have.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 25 2006 @ 03:17 PM MST
WAY too much emotion...check your facts on salary comparisons before making an emotional post like that.
City Employee Wages & Benefits
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, March 27 2006 @ 11:37 AM MST
Read this story posted on the Post Crescent web page today...
http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060326/APC03/603260534/1888
Unions fight uphill battle
Recent corporate decisions threaten to further weaken membership ranks
By Pete Bach
Unions should tread lightly. They do not have the power they once had.
Even good manufacturing paper mill workers are happy with $15.50 per hour after 8 years of service. $15.50 was after EIGHT years. Not starting pay.
Let me refresh your memory.
City of Oshkosh Bus Drivers get $18.05 STARTING PAY, for a sit down job in a climate controlled (heated and airconditioned bus) vs a mill worker standing in a hot, noisy, dirty environment making $15.50 after 8 years.
Tell me again how you justify that bus drivers wage??
Union workers.......you don't live in a vacuum with a Union shield protecting you any longer.
Be prepared to BARGAIN at the negotiation table!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 09:07 AM MST
Union leaders don't understand that negotiating is not just grabbing as much as you can and running. It is about getting the best deal you can for your members but being willing to have a sense of fair play and compromise at the same time. Negotiators for the city, county, and school district need to learn how to negotiate better also with our purse strings and an ever tight noose from Madison around our necks in mind when they do. This isn't happening on either front or we wouldn't have the mess we do.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 10:42 AM MST
"Union leaders don't understand that negotiating is not just grabbing as much as you can and running. It is about getting the best deal you can for your members but being willing to have a sense of fair play and compromise at the same time. Negotiators for the city, county, and school district need to learn how to negotiate better also with our purse strings and an ever tight noose from Madison around our necks in mind when they do. This isn't happening on either front or we wouldn't have the mess we do."
OUTSTANDING post.
You've summed this whole issue up in one paragraph!
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 07:02 PM MST
I can't speak for unions in the private sector, but I do know that unions that make up city employees most certainly have compromised with the city during negotiations for the betterment of the city. The author of the previously quoted post has no idea of the internal workings and discussions between city management and union officials. The post is nothing more than stereotyping what unions stand for and does nothing to speak of the unions that make up the employees of this fine city.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 07:24 PM MST
"I can't speak for unions in the private sector, but I do know that
unions that make up city employees most certainly have compromised
with the city during negotiations for the betterment of the city. The
author of the previously quoted post has no idea of the internal
workings and discussions between city management and union
officials. The post is nothing more than stereotyping what unions stand
for and does nothing to speak of the unions that make up the
employees of this fine city."
The author of the previously quoted post has no idea of the internal
workings and discussions between city management and union
officials.....
I TOTALLY agree!
That is part of the problem. Why is this so cloke and dagger? Why
all the secrecy?
It may not be a Union issue...the City nogotiators may be totally inept
at their jobs. I/we have no way of knowing this.
Are these nogotiation meetings "open meetings" If not, why not?
At the very least, the Union representatives should let the citizens of
Oshkosh know what is being nogotiated. The average citizen may
have a bit more compassion for their situation.
HOWEVER...like was said in a previous posting. There is no way to
justify $18.05 starting pay for a city bus driver.... there is not enough
lipstick in the world to put on that pig to make it more attractive!
That is just WRONG.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 08:08 PM MST
I can tell you that the negotiations are private-- at least from the union standpoint. I am not sure if the city would be required to release information during the bargaining process. I am guessing they would not.
All city contracts are public record. There seems to be this idea that these things are kept secret. They are not at all! It is up to the interested party to contact city hall to ask for the information. I don't get the feeling that there really are any attempts to keep this information secret. If you want the information, you might have to do some work to find the information, but it's not jumping through hoops. The hardest part is simply finding out who to ask.
I work for the city. I am not going to divulge my name on here for certain reasons, but if you want information on my position within the city, how much I make, or anything like that, just ask. You can send me an e-mail at oshwi324@yahoo.com. I will consider sharing information with you.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: L Schaffer on Tuesday, March 28 2006 @ 09:57 PM MST
When the city and unions agree on a contract and the Northwestern reports, very little information is given to the paper and it seems to me that the city administers and the union do not want the general public to know what was agreed. The only way the public will find out if all meeting are for public view and by what I mean is all meetings be aired on tv, be it with the union, our city manager, developer and so on. No more behind closed door meetings, everything out in the open. That is the way goverment should work, no secrets.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 06:17 AM MST
Sure, and we hope that you will publish the transcript of your next employment review here as well.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 06:55 AM MST
Personnel evaluations are confidential. Someone offers information that posters on this site have asked questions about and all you can do is insult. Really nice.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 06:51 AM MST
L Schaffer, the info is right there for the taking! YOU have to go get it. Make the first call to Dick Wollangk's office and I bet you'll be surprised as to the information you can obtain. You only see it as being secret because you don't want to go looking for it. You have to do the legwork.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29 2006 @ 12:03 PM MST
State law allows union bargaining sessions to be done behind closed doors for obvious reasons. Once a contract is settled it is a public document and you can compare one contract to the next and see what concessions there were.
City Employee Wages
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, April 01 2006 @ 12:08 PM MST
So can we assume you are upset by Paul Esslinger signing a confidentiality agreement with the guy from 5 Rivers?
posted by Cheryl Hentz at 11:14 AM
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