Lack of respect shown at high school game
Like many in Oshkosh, I attended the football game between city high school rivals Oshkosh West and Oshkosh North earlier this evening. Congratulations to the Spartans on their victory and better luck next time to the Wildcats. Though I am a West alumnus, my disappointment goes beyond the outcome of the game. Indeed, it extends to the lack of common courtesy shown by so many of the students in attendance and even some of the adults.
My party and I were seated in the second tier of bleaches, where many people throughout the stadium found themselves having to stand during the entire game in order to see because those in the lower tiers remained standing from the time the players first took the field to the final whistle being blown. In response to the frustration expressed by us and several others around us, one woman said “It’s like this at every game. The only way to avoid it is to sit higher up.” While that may sound like good advice, it's hardly practical. After all, everyone who attends a game at the stadium can’t sit high up. There would not be enough bleachers "high up" to accommodate everyone. And doesn’t that defeat the purpose of having bleachers throughout the entire stadium in the first place?
I understand that crowds often tend to rise to their feet during certain plays. Most of us could live with that, I think. But why these people, mostly students, found it necessary to stand for the entire game is beyond me. Stadium seating is specifically designed to allow everyone an equal opportunity to see.
This is not meant to be an alternative suggestion, but I think some people could have even dealt with the standing IF the kids had stood on the cement area in front of their seats. But, no, they all stood on the actual bleacher seats themselves, essentially forcing everyone else behind them to stand for the entire game if they wanted to see anything at all. And the students near us weren’t even paying much, if any, attention to the game. How could they, after all? They were much too busy goofing around with each other, talking on their cell phones and looking around to see who of their friends were there and so forth.
I asked a couple of Oshkosh Auxiliary police officers if they could ask the announcer to please make an announcement asking that people be courteous and sit down. Without missing a beat, one replied with what seemed to be a standard phrase of “That’s not going to happen, maam. They’re kids and they’ll just keep right on standing.” Well, thanks for trying, officer. I can see you’ve done everything humanly possible to help out. As people continued complaining to each other while becoming more and more frustrated, a gentleman nearby our group actually went to the press box and asked if such an announcement could be made. He returned frustrated, saying he was told “It won’t do any good. And really, the games are for the kids anyway.” Is that so? If that’s the case why are tickets being sold? After all, the students get in free. The rest of us are paying to see the game, but what we end up seeing instead is not a bunch of kids standing in front of us blocking our vision.
It may be a futile effort to ask kids to remain in their seats, but you won't know unless you try. I think most kids are decent and would respond favorably if asked to sit down so others can see. But if no one tells them what should be obvious - that their behavior is discourteous - they likely are thinking nothing about it. As I said in the beginning, this comes down to a simple lack of common respect and consideration for other people. And if everyone stays in their seats, everyone can see.
Needless to say, as much as I would like to support local sports, I don’t think I’ll be going back to another high school game at Titan Stadium. I’ll save my $4, listen to the game on the radio or watch the replay on OCAT. Judging from the comments I heard at the game, I won’t be alone.
P.S. Oh yes, and by the way, when the national anthem is played, one should either salute or cross their heart with their hand. But at a minimum, people should be quiet and show some respect for their country and its flag. Plenty of adults seem to have forgotten this. Given that they don’t show the proper respect, is it any wonder much of today’s youth act as they do?
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[following are the comments received on the previous site]
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 09:06 AM MDT
Cheryl,I too am an alumnus of Oshkosh West. Back in the 70’s when I attended football games at Titan Stadium we all stood too. It appears that the lower student section in the grandstand is still occupied by students, and they continue to stand. It might be that is a TRADITION in Oshkosh football.I’d suggest that the bleachers at Titan are rarely ever even close to full, so it you want to be seated and still enjoy the game, either move higher, or go further to the sides, not directly in the middle.
Loosen up Cheryl, when I was a kid we didn’t have cell phones, but a lot about going to the game was socializing, not hard core football watching! Sounds like nothing has changed in almost 30 years at Titan…and that just might be OK!
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 10:36 AM MDT
Your complacent attitude in accepting this as the norm or some kind of tradition only adds to the problem. One by one we have lost manners until society will eventually have completely lost its oral compass and respect. We're pretty much there now.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 12:06 PM MDT
I agree that we should not encourage this kind of behavior just because it's the way it's always been. Lots of things have changed through history because they're no longer socially acceptable or because times have changed. One such example of how we live in a different era is that things now have to be handicap accessible. We want anyone to be able to attend anything and go anywhere but because of something being tradition we'll cavalierly suggest that if someone can't see from where they're sitting they should move higher, even if their age, health or ability won't allow them. I was at last night's game also and saw a lot of older people there wanting to cheer on what I figured were grandchildren or maybe even great grandchildren. Years ago we were taught to respect elders and even give them our seat if seats were all gone. Nowadays we think nothing of suggesting those folks climb higher into the stadium if they can't see. What a shameful, sad attitude to have.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 01:45 PM MDT
Some of you people are a joke.I'm a parent. When I was in high school I stood in the student section. And even worse, I through Confetti...OH MY.Get a life. The kids are having fun. We did it, our kids are doing it and I'll bet there kids will be standing too someday.If your too disabled or obese to climb the stairs, they have an elevator and disabled seating area especially for the disabled spectors.Worry about something more important...there's plenty of real problems for you to be whining about.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: admin on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 01:59 PM MDT
While your "sensitivity" is indeed touching, your common sense seems to be lacking as is your inability to grasp the simple principle behind the discussion.There is nothing preventing those kids from having a good time. By the same token, they are not having a better time by standing through an entire game. But the bottom line is that their right to have fun should not preclude anyone else - young or old, light or heavy, able-bodied or physically challenged - from being able to do the same.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 03:01 PM MDT
With an attitude like yours I don't think we have to wonder why kids do as they do these days. Is this the worst possible thing kids today could be doing? Certainly not. But the people complaining about the game have legitimate complaints. Just like the people have who live near the stadium and are upset about things. No one wants to do anything about those problems either. Tell us, if you're not teaching your kids how to be respectful and polite, who is? I guarantee you I'm teaching mine and they won't be standing in front of other people at games, throwing trash in people's yards, or making so much noise that they're disturbing stadium neighbors trying to relax after working all week. Too bad they'll still be disturbed, thanks to people like you and your kids.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Spartanman on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 07:02 PM MDT
Cheryl, Go to a North-West basketball game at West. 1st., you'll have to buy a ticket in advance because the gym is only allowed so many people due to fire code. Both student sections stand up the whole game, (a tradition started by Lourdes back in the 80's) It's HOT, the bleachers are not too steady, so walking up or down, in or out is a problem. But, the action is the best you'll find anywhere. Student section of the West Wildcats was the talk of the State basketball tourney. The best ever seen at the State Tourney. Give the kids a break, its their game and their schools.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 07:30 PM MDT
Correction anonymous. The students may attend the schools but I know of no students who pay property taxes. The adults are the ones paying for them making them their schools too and everyone should be allowed to enjoy the game.This could help solve the problem. In Neenah we have sections set aside only for students. They can stand if they want but if they do they're not hurting anyone. But they're not standing on bleachers, which were meant for sitting, not standing. Also, students pay to attend the games and adults only pay $3 instead of $4. I was unaware until reading these comments that Oshkosh students get in free. No wonder people are charged more to see an Oshkosh game than anyone else in the Valley.You can say this is a lot of talk over something harmless, but one thing always leads to another. Nip problems with courtesy in the bud early and you'll not have problems later on.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 07:58 PM MDT
This is in reply to the flippant comments from Anonymous 1:45 PM. Usually I wouldn't say something like this but since you've chosen such rudeness to express yourself, you shouldn't mind a little of the same coming back to you. Instead of standing in the student section at games and throwing confetti when you attended school you would have benefited more by paying closer attention to your studies, especially spelling. Your posting contained so many errors that it's frightening to think you may be passing *those* bad habits on to your kids too.No one has mentioned anything yet about the behavior of people during the playing of the National Anthem, so I will. It is true a lot of people have forgotten what proper decorum should be during this song. It is equally appalling that an announcement has to be made asking people to remove their caps. I agree that much of society today is losing its manners, if it ever had them to begin with.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 11:34 PM MDT
My goodness, anon 1:45, what an ignorant thing to say. No one said anything about being unable to climb stairs for the reason you mentioned or any other. Stay focused on the topic if you can. Or is your ADD so severe that it's too challenging for you?
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: bigfoot on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 05:31 AM MDT
Cheryl,I think that you are nuts. You should have expected a large crowd with lots of students when there are both Oshkosh Schools playing at the same time!! If you were to go to just a West game or a North game you would see that there is not even close to the same amount of fans there. When I'm at the games I always see the OPD and the Auxiliary Police breaking up fights and dealing with kids screwing around. I think what they want is for the kids to be in the stands watching the game, and not fighting or screwing around! I know I'd rather have them standing watching the game, then seeing a group of kids beating on each other. If the worst thing they did that night was standing, then I would say it was a pretty good night.Students have stood like that since the first Oshkosh football game, and I'm sure they will stand unitl the end of time!I guess what I'm saying is, I dont think it's going to matter if you ever go back to Titan Stadium again, as the Schools have seemed to make it for alot of years without you, and I'm sure they'll make for many more with or without you!
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: admin on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 09:44 AM MDT
Hey Bigfoot, Thank you for your mental health evaluation. What talent you have to make a group diagnosis and via the Internet, no less. Does Dr. Phil know about you?
Seriously, apparently you did not read everything or you would see there are plenty of others besides me - some who were at the game, others who weren't - who share my opinion. We may be in the minority, but that does not mean our concern is any less valid. Here's a thought: Maybe if the students were sitting and watching the game there wouldn't be quite the number of fights you've witnessed. It's harder to give someone a shove or throw a punch when you're sitting down.
As to your other points: (1) they weren't even watching the game, which I don't really care if they do or don't, but they do not have the right to impede others' ability to do so, especially when others have paid for their tickets and the students haven't; (2) yes, I think we all expected a big crowd. That's why it was disappointing and frustrating for so many in and around the section we were sitting that they saw nothing, spurring some to actually leave at halftime. But hey who cares about that right? Their ticket was already paid for and the money probably securely locked up by that time; (3) yes, they have survived all these years without some of our money. I guess they'll continue to do so, but there won't be as much sympathy for them when they complain about declining revenues.
(Incidentally, instead of spouting off about the stadium surviving without our ticket prices all these years, maybe you should think about the other financial support some of us also give to local athletics. It's not just $4 every once in a while.)
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: bigfoot on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 11:09 AM MDT
Thanks for your imput on my opinion. I sure hope that you take your concern to each schools athletic director, as I was told that it is them who are in charge of everything that happens at these games. I guess my point is this...there is realy nothing else for these kids to do in Oshkosh, so the friday night football is basically it. Like I said, if the worst thing they did is stand, it should be noted as a good night.I attend games on a semi regular basis, and like I said it is the North vs West game that the standing would ever be an issue, but that should be expected with the size of the crowd.
By the way how would you enforce a sitting order? If the staff tells them to sit, the minute they turn around to go to the other end, the kids would stand back up. Thats easy to assume.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: alibi2day on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 12:51 PM MDT
STANDING is NOT the issue. The issue is RESPECT. Respect for our country's National Anthem. Respect for public property. Respect for other individuals. Respect for one human to another. Patrons of a game should be allowed to be able to see the game. Bleachers are made to SIT on. Do you stand on your desk at school or the office? Do the first rows of any theatre remain standing throughout the show? If you choose to stand at the game; fine but do so up or away from the public that chooses to sit. As a Mother, I could not sit while watching the children play so I would get to the game early, and find a seat in front of the press box. Now I do the same and watch the grandchildren play. I stand to enjoy the games and everyone around me can see and enjoy them too. MOVE THE STUDENT SECTION!In most area school districts the 40/50-yard lines are reseved for parents, relatives, and other spectators. The balance of the bleachers open to whoever else wanted to use them. Designated student sections including band members were/are at either 30-yard line. This is a suitable arrangement for over 30+ years. The fact that the STANDING (blocking the view for others) has gone on for years is no excuse. BAD MANNERS AND LACK OF RESPECT should NEVER be acceptable behavior.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: bigfoot on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 02:01 PM MDT
I totally understand and agree with what you are saying about RESPECT. However, what I am saying is if you look at the games when it is just one school either West or North the student section is not that big, but when they play each other it almost triples the attendance of not only students but the public as well. Most of those same students are there for every game, the same can NOT be said for those whom just attend the cross town rival game. It is the students team, made up of thier peers, whom they come to support. Even though there was a lot of people at the game, there was still plenty of room to move if the vision was not good in your area. I no that I found a good spot to sit, and I even moved to yet a better spot at halftime. There are alot of other bad things that these kids could have been doing....fighting, drinking, drugs, and so on. So to complain about them standing during a football game I feel is stupid!
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 09:25 AM MDT
As an Oshkosh West Student there are some things the community should keep in mind.
1) I do not know who started the tradition of standing at the football game on the bleachers, but I do know the tradition was in place before I was a freshmen, four years ago.
2) The benefits of standing on the bleachers as opposed to the concrete are thus: students, who move around a lot, are able to move among other students without blocking other students’ views or making the students leave their seat as may be the case in a section that sits down. In addition, as a student myself and observing my friends, the standing together with other students, for whatever reason, creates a sense of community that is not matched by just sitting in the bleachers.
3) The aisle behind the student section is in constant motion of standing people walking about, especially at a North vs West game, even if the students sat down this movement would likely impede the view of the first few rows of the "adult" section.
4) The football game is a social event. It is not just about the football. It’s about both supporting our friends on the football team and meeting/socializing with friends not on the football team. If the Oshkosh community wills it that the students not socialize and talk with others at the football game, then it would likely see similar attendance from students as it does to Oshkosh High School Tennis Meets (almost nonexistent). The football players, whom the whole event is really about, would much rather have the students, their friends, there talking and looking forward to the game all week than no students at all. But this social atmosphere is not unparalleled in the adult world. When most adults have a Packer Football Party, I guarantee you not everyone is quiet while watching the game.
5) The stadium last night was not at full capacity, I saw many many seats available that where above the height of the standing students. They weren't at the 50 yrd line but they were there.
I have at times felt sorry for the people in the first few rows, knowing that they can’t see. However the logistics of getting every student to change tradition and stay sitting would require action from the administration that would cause resentment among students toward administration. The post-Columbine era of school instruction would much rather have a happy and social student body blocking the views of adults who choose to sit in a place where they cannot see than a student body that is any less social and resentful of school administration.
If enough of the Oshkosh Community is willing to ask for a change to the standing policy, I would not object to an informed debate between students, administrators, and the community.
But the time to solve this dilemma is certainly not at the game (where the announcements cannot really be heard amongst the large student body) and is not the responsibility of the auxiliary police, who are there to make sure everyone is safe not to be the “sit not stand” police.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: admin on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 10:18 AM MDT
While I appreciate your attempts at an explanation, the fact remains students are not paying for the tickets, others are (excluding senior citizens) and they certainly deserve to be able to see. It was interesting to note that as part of your explanation you included a comment about the students not wanting to block fellow students' view. They should be able to extend their consideration to all those in attendance, not just their friends and fellow students.
As for climbing to the higher bleacher seats, there are many people who have difficulty climbing steps. As one could imagine, there were a number of grandparents and people of a similar age there last night. Not only can many of them perhaps not easily climb to the higher seats, they shouldn't have to.
Finally as to the auxiliary police and what their job is, I beg to differ. Their duties extend beyond making sure people are safe. That is why you will frequently see them setting up blockades in parking lots and monitoring who is and isn't parking there during certain events (Oshkosh West High's parking lot, for example, on the day the water park opened and Richard's School of the Dance's recital was being held or during the Miss Wisconsin pageant, etc.).If the district is unwilling to even make an attempt to solve the problem, perhaps it should let everyone in free. - Cheryl
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: DRR on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 10:19 AM MDT
OCAT no longer carries high school events due to lack of funding and interest.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: alibi2day on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 11:37 AM MDT
DO Oshkosh students NOT know the correct use of a Student Section? For years OTHER school districts have set up "student sections" They have catered to the student crowd realizing that the majority are only there to socialize with their peers. The home town band is usually part of this section. Within these student sections they socialize and move around at will but they do not interfere or block the views of any of parents, adults or other viewing public. It appears the lack of respect and down right rudeness has been part of the Oshkosh culture for years. How Sad. Maybe its time to make respect and sportmanship a vital part of the education process for the students in the stands as well as some adults; not just for the athletics on the field.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 08:29 PM MDT
You're comparing a Packer Party where someone is hosting it in their home and not charging admission to a game where admission is being charged? Get real. They're not even close to being the same. You're also missing the fact that it's not just the first few rows in the adult section that can't see. The first several rows have to stand because the students are standing on the seats down below. That means if anyone behind those adults wants to see they must also stand up. It's like dominoes, except instead of being knocked down everyone is having to rise to their feet. There is no good reason for it. I liked the one person's suggestion of sticking all the students in their own area but where it doesn't block other views and I agree that you kids should be paying for your seats. Help support the team instead of showing up for free and preventing people from seeing someone they might've come to support. Team spirit goes a lot deeper than just supporting your team young person. As you age you're understand that.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 08:40 PM MDT
BLAHBLAHBLAH.....Ad Infinitum.Let the students enjoy themselves. If you don't like it too bad. You had your time when you were young. Let then have theirs now.I'm betting if a poll were taken at the Friday night games, and all adult spectators were polled on whether they wanted the students to sit down, or continue to stand as they've done for decades, the results would overwhelmingly support the students to continue the tradition.Students...STAND UP for your right to STAND UP at Titan!Now, go enjoy your evening.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 08:46 PM MDT
You're what's wrong with this country. Encourage bad behavior and be rude to people expressing their thoughts in the process. You're a nice role model.
Total lack of respect shown at high school gameSTUDENTS DO PAY
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 09:42 PM MDT
Students do not get into the games free. They are all charged at the beginning of the school year when paying for their ID cards. These ID cards work as a season pass and students are not allowed into the games without them unless they also pay admission
Total lack of respect shown at high school gameSTUDENTS DO PAY
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 10:09 PM MDT
That's getting in free. Let's face it. They need a student ID card just to attend school, even if they go to zero games. But as you said the ID entitles them to enter the games for free provided they show it. That includes middle school students too. You make it sound like they pay extra for the games they're planning to attend when they get their ID cards. That just isn't so. One price for all students per school for ID cards and with that you can attend no games or all the games.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: lakefly on Sunday, September 10 2006 @ 04:13 PM MDT
The solution to the problem is simple. Let no one go to the games but students since it's all about them anyway. When the school district and sports associations complain about the declining revenue they may decide to think about the paying fans. Until then, stick the kids in their own area where they block no one. Make it in an area not in the bleachers. Since they don't sit during games there's no reason to allow them up there unless they're with a parent or guardian.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: admin on Sunday, September 10 2006 @ 10:00 AM MDT
What in the world was I thinking? I should have known better than to think that adults could actually have a mature discussion about an issue that bothered plenty of people besides me who attended Friday night’s football game.
What began as a decent discussion for most quickly descended into the “children’s hour” for a few select people. They tried posting on the subject of respect, but instead of contributing anything meaningful, only displayed their own lack of class and respect, as well as their inability to write about something they so clearly don’t understand. Judging by some of their comments I have to wonder about their own quality and level of education.
There was also very clear disdain shown for me in a couple of the remarks and I’m sure the posters thought they would hurt, embarrass, or anger me by their making them. Sorry to disappoint, but the only emotion it evoked in me was pity for them. It has been said that criticism is a sign one’s personality has some force. The sad thing is these poor souls don’t even know how to be critical in a constructive way. They only know negativity and nastiness; and while it is flattering to know they still think about me, in the process of trying to attack me they were disrespectful to a lot of other people who attended the game and many who didn't.
Needless to say, their childish behavior has prompted me to delete some of their drivel which was repetitive or not on point and move this discussion to a page where people will now have to sign in if they want to continue the discussion on this site. They’ve shown they lack common courtesy and respect; I’m willing to bet we’ll now see that they lack guts as well. Those traits are a triad to be proud of, to be sure.
- Cheryl
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: bigfoot on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 02:16 PM MDT
Whats next????Are you going to write to the Wisconsin Badgers and have all of there students sit for there football game??If you see them on tv, you will see that it is one of the most rowdy, party like, border line out of control student sections in the NCAA. I've never heard anyone make a complaint about that, so I guess that makes a simple high school game pretty minor!
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: alibi2day on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 04:22 PM MDT
The Badger students are confined to a section of the stadiums. They do not block the view of other fans.They are NOT allowed to STAND ON THE BLEACHERS!!So YES let them have their jump around, party and enjoy. Oshkosh students could also have a section of the stadium just NOT in front of the other viewing public.and NO STANDING ON THE BLEACHERS!
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: bigfoot on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 05:22 PM MDT
I dont know what badger game your watching, but YES they do stand on the bleachers! I am an alumni of that School, so I've been to a good number of games there. The students at titan do have a student section, it just happens to be at the 50 yard line in the bleachers at field level.I guess it would be up to Joe/Jane Citizen to move to the north or south side of the bleachers if they desire a better view! Better yet watch the game on tv.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: DBCooper on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 10:39 PM MDT
So, Madison must be a pretty easy school to graduate from? If the students at Madison spent more time in the English department and less time standing on the bleachers, they'd know that it is "you're" not "your", and that unless they have been to the cloning lab they are an "alumnus" not an "alumni". The rest of your posts today are not much better. Gotta love the people who spent 5 figures on a degree and aren't any smarter than they were in 7th grade. Sorry. I've tried to be on my best behavior lately...
My party and I were seated in the second tier of bleaches, where many people throughout the stadium found themselves having to stand during the entire game in order to see because those in the lower tiers remained standing from the time the players first took the field to the final whistle being blown. In response to the frustration expressed by us and several others around us, one woman said “It’s like this at every game. The only way to avoid it is to sit higher up.” While that may sound like good advice, it's hardly practical. After all, everyone who attends a game at the stadium can’t sit high up. There would not be enough bleachers "high up" to accommodate everyone. And doesn’t that defeat the purpose of having bleachers throughout the entire stadium in the first place?
I understand that crowds often tend to rise to their feet during certain plays. Most of us could live with that, I think. But why these people, mostly students, found it necessary to stand for the entire game is beyond me. Stadium seating is specifically designed to allow everyone an equal opportunity to see.
This is not meant to be an alternative suggestion, but I think some people could have even dealt with the standing IF the kids had stood on the cement area in front of their seats. But, no, they all stood on the actual bleacher seats themselves, essentially forcing everyone else behind them to stand for the entire game if they wanted to see anything at all. And the students near us weren’t even paying much, if any, attention to the game. How could they, after all? They were much too busy goofing around with each other, talking on their cell phones and looking around to see who of their friends were there and so forth.
I asked a couple of Oshkosh Auxiliary police officers if they could ask the announcer to please make an announcement asking that people be courteous and sit down. Without missing a beat, one replied with what seemed to be a standard phrase of “That’s not going to happen, maam. They’re kids and they’ll just keep right on standing.” Well, thanks for trying, officer. I can see you’ve done everything humanly possible to help out. As people continued complaining to each other while becoming more and more frustrated, a gentleman nearby our group actually went to the press box and asked if such an announcement could be made. He returned frustrated, saying he was told “It won’t do any good. And really, the games are for the kids anyway.” Is that so? If that’s the case why are tickets being sold? After all, the students get in free. The rest of us are paying to see the game, but what we end up seeing instead is not a bunch of kids standing in front of us blocking our vision.
It may be a futile effort to ask kids to remain in their seats, but you won't know unless you try. I think most kids are decent and would respond favorably if asked to sit down so others can see. But if no one tells them what should be obvious - that their behavior is discourteous - they likely are thinking nothing about it. As I said in the beginning, this comes down to a simple lack of common respect and consideration for other people. And if everyone stays in their seats, everyone can see.
Needless to say, as much as I would like to support local sports, I don’t think I’ll be going back to another high school game at Titan Stadium. I’ll save my $4, listen to the game on the radio or watch the replay on OCAT. Judging from the comments I heard at the game, I won’t be alone.
P.S. Oh yes, and by the way, when the national anthem is played, one should either salute or cross their heart with their hand. But at a minimum, people should be quiet and show some respect for their country and its flag. Plenty of adults seem to have forgotten this. Given that they don’t show the proper respect, is it any wonder much of today’s youth act as they do?
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[following are the comments received on the previous site]
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 09:06 AM MDT
Cheryl,I too am an alumnus of Oshkosh West. Back in the 70’s when I attended football games at Titan Stadium we all stood too. It appears that the lower student section in the grandstand is still occupied by students, and they continue to stand. It might be that is a TRADITION in Oshkosh football.I’d suggest that the bleachers at Titan are rarely ever even close to full, so it you want to be seated and still enjoy the game, either move higher, or go further to the sides, not directly in the middle.
Loosen up Cheryl, when I was a kid we didn’t have cell phones, but a lot about going to the game was socializing, not hard core football watching! Sounds like nothing has changed in almost 30 years at Titan…and that just might be OK!
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 10:36 AM MDT
Your complacent attitude in accepting this as the norm or some kind of tradition only adds to the problem. One by one we have lost manners until society will eventually have completely lost its oral compass and respect. We're pretty much there now.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 12:06 PM MDT
I agree that we should not encourage this kind of behavior just because it's the way it's always been. Lots of things have changed through history because they're no longer socially acceptable or because times have changed. One such example of how we live in a different era is that things now have to be handicap accessible. We want anyone to be able to attend anything and go anywhere but because of something being tradition we'll cavalierly suggest that if someone can't see from where they're sitting they should move higher, even if their age, health or ability won't allow them. I was at last night's game also and saw a lot of older people there wanting to cheer on what I figured were grandchildren or maybe even great grandchildren. Years ago we were taught to respect elders and even give them our seat if seats were all gone. Nowadays we think nothing of suggesting those folks climb higher into the stadium if they can't see. What a shameful, sad attitude to have.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 01:45 PM MDT
Some of you people are a joke.I'm a parent. When I was in high school I stood in the student section. And even worse, I through Confetti...OH MY.Get a life. The kids are having fun. We did it, our kids are doing it and I'll bet there kids will be standing too someday.If your too disabled or obese to climb the stairs, they have an elevator and disabled seating area especially for the disabled spectors.Worry about something more important...there's plenty of real problems for you to be whining about.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: admin on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 01:59 PM MDT
While your "sensitivity" is indeed touching, your common sense seems to be lacking as is your inability to grasp the simple principle behind the discussion.There is nothing preventing those kids from having a good time. By the same token, they are not having a better time by standing through an entire game. But the bottom line is that their right to have fun should not preclude anyone else - young or old, light or heavy, able-bodied or physically challenged - from being able to do the same.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 03:01 PM MDT
With an attitude like yours I don't think we have to wonder why kids do as they do these days. Is this the worst possible thing kids today could be doing? Certainly not. But the people complaining about the game have legitimate complaints. Just like the people have who live near the stadium and are upset about things. No one wants to do anything about those problems either. Tell us, if you're not teaching your kids how to be respectful and polite, who is? I guarantee you I'm teaching mine and they won't be standing in front of other people at games, throwing trash in people's yards, or making so much noise that they're disturbing stadium neighbors trying to relax after working all week. Too bad they'll still be disturbed, thanks to people like you and your kids.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Spartanman on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 07:02 PM MDT
Cheryl, Go to a North-West basketball game at West. 1st., you'll have to buy a ticket in advance because the gym is only allowed so many people due to fire code. Both student sections stand up the whole game, (a tradition started by Lourdes back in the 80's) It's HOT, the bleachers are not too steady, so walking up or down, in or out is a problem. But, the action is the best you'll find anywhere. Student section of the West Wildcats was the talk of the State basketball tourney. The best ever seen at the State Tourney. Give the kids a break, its their game and their schools.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 07:30 PM MDT
Correction anonymous. The students may attend the schools but I know of no students who pay property taxes. The adults are the ones paying for them making them their schools too and everyone should be allowed to enjoy the game.This could help solve the problem. In Neenah we have sections set aside only for students. They can stand if they want but if they do they're not hurting anyone. But they're not standing on bleachers, which were meant for sitting, not standing. Also, students pay to attend the games and adults only pay $3 instead of $4. I was unaware until reading these comments that Oshkosh students get in free. No wonder people are charged more to see an Oshkosh game than anyone else in the Valley.You can say this is a lot of talk over something harmless, but one thing always leads to another. Nip problems with courtesy in the bud early and you'll not have problems later on.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 07:58 PM MDT
This is in reply to the flippant comments from Anonymous 1:45 PM. Usually I wouldn't say something like this but since you've chosen such rudeness to express yourself, you shouldn't mind a little of the same coming back to you. Instead of standing in the student section at games and throwing confetti when you attended school you would have benefited more by paying closer attention to your studies, especially spelling. Your posting contained so many errors that it's frightening to think you may be passing *those* bad habits on to your kids too.No one has mentioned anything yet about the behavior of people during the playing of the National Anthem, so I will. It is true a lot of people have forgotten what proper decorum should be during this song. It is equally appalling that an announcement has to be made asking people to remove their caps. I agree that much of society today is losing its manners, if it ever had them to begin with.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 11:34 PM MDT
My goodness, anon 1:45, what an ignorant thing to say. No one said anything about being unable to climb stairs for the reason you mentioned or any other. Stay focused on the topic if you can. Or is your ADD so severe that it's too challenging for you?
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: bigfoot on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 05:31 AM MDT
Cheryl,I think that you are nuts. You should have expected a large crowd with lots of students when there are both Oshkosh Schools playing at the same time!! If you were to go to just a West game or a North game you would see that there is not even close to the same amount of fans there. When I'm at the games I always see the OPD and the Auxiliary Police breaking up fights and dealing with kids screwing around. I think what they want is for the kids to be in the stands watching the game, and not fighting or screwing around! I know I'd rather have them standing watching the game, then seeing a group of kids beating on each other. If the worst thing they did that night was standing, then I would say it was a pretty good night.Students have stood like that since the first Oshkosh football game, and I'm sure they will stand unitl the end of time!I guess what I'm saying is, I dont think it's going to matter if you ever go back to Titan Stadium again, as the Schools have seemed to make it for alot of years without you, and I'm sure they'll make for many more with or without you!
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: admin on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 09:44 AM MDT
Hey Bigfoot, Thank you for your mental health evaluation. What talent you have to make a group diagnosis and via the Internet, no less. Does Dr. Phil know about you?
Seriously, apparently you did not read everything or you would see there are plenty of others besides me - some who were at the game, others who weren't - who share my opinion. We may be in the minority, but that does not mean our concern is any less valid. Here's a thought: Maybe if the students were sitting and watching the game there wouldn't be quite the number of fights you've witnessed. It's harder to give someone a shove or throw a punch when you're sitting down.
As to your other points: (1) they weren't even watching the game, which I don't really care if they do or don't, but they do not have the right to impede others' ability to do so, especially when others have paid for their tickets and the students haven't; (2) yes, I think we all expected a big crowd. That's why it was disappointing and frustrating for so many in and around the section we were sitting that they saw nothing, spurring some to actually leave at halftime. But hey who cares about that right? Their ticket was already paid for and the money probably securely locked up by that time; (3) yes, they have survived all these years without some of our money. I guess they'll continue to do so, but there won't be as much sympathy for them when they complain about declining revenues.
(Incidentally, instead of spouting off about the stadium surviving without our ticket prices all these years, maybe you should think about the other financial support some of us also give to local athletics. It's not just $4 every once in a while.)
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: bigfoot on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 11:09 AM MDT
Thanks for your imput on my opinion. I sure hope that you take your concern to each schools athletic director, as I was told that it is them who are in charge of everything that happens at these games. I guess my point is this...there is realy nothing else for these kids to do in Oshkosh, so the friday night football is basically it. Like I said, if the worst thing they did is stand, it should be noted as a good night.I attend games on a semi regular basis, and like I said it is the North vs West game that the standing would ever be an issue, but that should be expected with the size of the crowd.
By the way how would you enforce a sitting order? If the staff tells them to sit, the minute they turn around to go to the other end, the kids would stand back up. Thats easy to assume.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: alibi2day on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 12:51 PM MDT
STANDING is NOT the issue. The issue is RESPECT. Respect for our country's National Anthem. Respect for public property. Respect for other individuals. Respect for one human to another. Patrons of a game should be allowed to be able to see the game. Bleachers are made to SIT on. Do you stand on your desk at school or the office? Do the first rows of any theatre remain standing throughout the show? If you choose to stand at the game; fine but do so up or away from the public that chooses to sit. As a Mother, I could not sit while watching the children play so I would get to the game early, and find a seat in front of the press box. Now I do the same and watch the grandchildren play. I stand to enjoy the games and everyone around me can see and enjoy them too. MOVE THE STUDENT SECTION!In most area school districts the 40/50-yard lines are reseved for parents, relatives, and other spectators. The balance of the bleachers open to whoever else wanted to use them. Designated student sections including band members were/are at either 30-yard line. This is a suitable arrangement for over 30+ years. The fact that the STANDING (blocking the view for others) has gone on for years is no excuse. BAD MANNERS AND LACK OF RESPECT should NEVER be acceptable behavior.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: bigfoot on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 02:01 PM MDT
I totally understand and agree with what you are saying about RESPECT. However, what I am saying is if you look at the games when it is just one school either West or North the student section is not that big, but when they play each other it almost triples the attendance of not only students but the public as well. Most of those same students are there for every game, the same can NOT be said for those whom just attend the cross town rival game. It is the students team, made up of thier peers, whom they come to support. Even though there was a lot of people at the game, there was still plenty of room to move if the vision was not good in your area. I no that I found a good spot to sit, and I even moved to yet a better spot at halftime. There are alot of other bad things that these kids could have been doing....fighting, drinking, drugs, and so on. So to complain about them standing during a football game I feel is stupid!
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 09:25 AM MDT
As an Oshkosh West Student there are some things the community should keep in mind.
1) I do not know who started the tradition of standing at the football game on the bleachers, but I do know the tradition was in place before I was a freshmen, four years ago.
2) The benefits of standing on the bleachers as opposed to the concrete are thus: students, who move around a lot, are able to move among other students without blocking other students’ views or making the students leave their seat as may be the case in a section that sits down. In addition, as a student myself and observing my friends, the standing together with other students, for whatever reason, creates a sense of community that is not matched by just sitting in the bleachers.
3) The aisle behind the student section is in constant motion of standing people walking about, especially at a North vs West game, even if the students sat down this movement would likely impede the view of the first few rows of the "adult" section.
4) The football game is a social event. It is not just about the football. It’s about both supporting our friends on the football team and meeting/socializing with friends not on the football team. If the Oshkosh community wills it that the students not socialize and talk with others at the football game, then it would likely see similar attendance from students as it does to Oshkosh High School Tennis Meets (almost nonexistent). The football players, whom the whole event is really about, would much rather have the students, their friends, there talking and looking forward to the game all week than no students at all. But this social atmosphere is not unparalleled in the adult world. When most adults have a Packer Football Party, I guarantee you not everyone is quiet while watching the game.
5) The stadium last night was not at full capacity, I saw many many seats available that where above the height of the standing students. They weren't at the 50 yrd line but they were there.
I have at times felt sorry for the people in the first few rows, knowing that they can’t see. However the logistics of getting every student to change tradition and stay sitting would require action from the administration that would cause resentment among students toward administration. The post-Columbine era of school instruction would much rather have a happy and social student body blocking the views of adults who choose to sit in a place where they cannot see than a student body that is any less social and resentful of school administration.
If enough of the Oshkosh Community is willing to ask for a change to the standing policy, I would not object to an informed debate between students, administrators, and the community.
But the time to solve this dilemma is certainly not at the game (where the announcements cannot really be heard amongst the large student body) and is not the responsibility of the auxiliary police, who are there to make sure everyone is safe not to be the “sit not stand” police.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: admin on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 10:18 AM MDT
While I appreciate your attempts at an explanation, the fact remains students are not paying for the tickets, others are (excluding senior citizens) and they certainly deserve to be able to see. It was interesting to note that as part of your explanation you included a comment about the students not wanting to block fellow students' view. They should be able to extend their consideration to all those in attendance, not just their friends and fellow students.
As for climbing to the higher bleacher seats, there are many people who have difficulty climbing steps. As one could imagine, there were a number of grandparents and people of a similar age there last night. Not only can many of them perhaps not easily climb to the higher seats, they shouldn't have to.
Finally as to the auxiliary police and what their job is, I beg to differ. Their duties extend beyond making sure people are safe. That is why you will frequently see them setting up blockades in parking lots and monitoring who is and isn't parking there during certain events (Oshkosh West High's parking lot, for example, on the day the water park opened and Richard's School of the Dance's recital was being held or during the Miss Wisconsin pageant, etc.).If the district is unwilling to even make an attempt to solve the problem, perhaps it should let everyone in free. - Cheryl
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: DRR on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 10:19 AM MDT
OCAT no longer carries high school events due to lack of funding and interest.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: alibi2day on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 11:37 AM MDT
DO Oshkosh students NOT know the correct use of a Student Section? For years OTHER school districts have set up "student sections" They have catered to the student crowd realizing that the majority are only there to socialize with their peers. The home town band is usually part of this section. Within these student sections they socialize and move around at will but they do not interfere or block the views of any of parents, adults or other viewing public. It appears the lack of respect and down right rudeness has been part of the Oshkosh culture for years. How Sad. Maybe its time to make respect and sportmanship a vital part of the education process for the students in the stands as well as some adults; not just for the athletics on the field.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 08:29 PM MDT
You're comparing a Packer Party where someone is hosting it in their home and not charging admission to a game where admission is being charged? Get real. They're not even close to being the same. You're also missing the fact that it's not just the first few rows in the adult section that can't see. The first several rows have to stand because the students are standing on the seats down below. That means if anyone behind those adults wants to see they must also stand up. It's like dominoes, except instead of being knocked down everyone is having to rise to their feet. There is no good reason for it. I liked the one person's suggestion of sticking all the students in their own area but where it doesn't block other views and I agree that you kids should be paying for your seats. Help support the team instead of showing up for free and preventing people from seeing someone they might've come to support. Team spirit goes a lot deeper than just supporting your team young person. As you age you're understand that.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 08:40 PM MDT
BLAHBLAHBLAH.....Ad Infinitum.Let the students enjoy themselves. If you don't like it too bad. You had your time when you were young. Let then have theirs now.I'm betting if a poll were taken at the Friday night games, and all adult spectators were polled on whether they wanted the students to sit down, or continue to stand as they've done for decades, the results would overwhelmingly support the students to continue the tradition.Students...STAND UP for your right to STAND UP at Titan!Now, go enjoy your evening.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 08:46 PM MDT
You're what's wrong with this country. Encourage bad behavior and be rude to people expressing their thoughts in the process. You're a nice role model.
Total lack of respect shown at high school gameSTUDENTS DO PAY
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 09:42 PM MDT
Students do not get into the games free. They are all charged at the beginning of the school year when paying for their ID cards. These ID cards work as a season pass and students are not allowed into the games without them unless they also pay admission
Total lack of respect shown at high school gameSTUDENTS DO PAY
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 10:09 PM MDT
That's getting in free. Let's face it. They need a student ID card just to attend school, even if they go to zero games. But as you said the ID entitles them to enter the games for free provided they show it. That includes middle school students too. You make it sound like they pay extra for the games they're planning to attend when they get their ID cards. That just isn't so. One price for all students per school for ID cards and with that you can attend no games or all the games.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: lakefly on Sunday, September 10 2006 @ 04:13 PM MDT
The solution to the problem is simple. Let no one go to the games but students since it's all about them anyway. When the school district and sports associations complain about the declining revenue they may decide to think about the paying fans. Until then, stick the kids in their own area where they block no one. Make it in an area not in the bleachers. Since they don't sit during games there's no reason to allow them up there unless they're with a parent or guardian.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: admin on Sunday, September 10 2006 @ 10:00 AM MDT
What in the world was I thinking? I should have known better than to think that adults could actually have a mature discussion about an issue that bothered plenty of people besides me who attended Friday night’s football game.
What began as a decent discussion for most quickly descended into the “children’s hour” for a few select people. They tried posting on the subject of respect, but instead of contributing anything meaningful, only displayed their own lack of class and respect, as well as their inability to write about something they so clearly don’t understand. Judging by some of their comments I have to wonder about their own quality and level of education.
There was also very clear disdain shown for me in a couple of the remarks and I’m sure the posters thought they would hurt, embarrass, or anger me by their making them. Sorry to disappoint, but the only emotion it evoked in me was pity for them. It has been said that criticism is a sign one’s personality has some force. The sad thing is these poor souls don’t even know how to be critical in a constructive way. They only know negativity and nastiness; and while it is flattering to know they still think about me, in the process of trying to attack me they were disrespectful to a lot of other people who attended the game and many who didn't.
Needless to say, their childish behavior has prompted me to delete some of their drivel which was repetitive or not on point and move this discussion to a page where people will now have to sign in if they want to continue the discussion on this site. They’ve shown they lack common courtesy and respect; I’m willing to bet we’ll now see that they lack guts as well. Those traits are a triad to be proud of, to be sure.
- Cheryl
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: bigfoot on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 02:16 PM MDT
Whats next????Are you going to write to the Wisconsin Badgers and have all of there students sit for there football game??If you see them on tv, you will see that it is one of the most rowdy, party like, border line out of control student sections in the NCAA. I've never heard anyone make a complaint about that, so I guess that makes a simple high school game pretty minor!
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: alibi2day on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 04:22 PM MDT
The Badger students are confined to a section of the stadiums. They do not block the view of other fans.They are NOT allowed to STAND ON THE BLEACHERS!!So YES let them have their jump around, party and enjoy. Oshkosh students could also have a section of the stadium just NOT in front of the other viewing public.and NO STANDING ON THE BLEACHERS!
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: bigfoot on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 05:22 PM MDT
I dont know what badger game your watching, but YES they do stand on the bleachers! I am an alumni of that School, so I've been to a good number of games there. The students at titan do have a student section, it just happens to be at the 50 yard line in the bleachers at field level.I guess it would be up to Joe/Jane Citizen to move to the north or south side of the bleachers if they desire a better view! Better yet watch the game on tv.
Total lack of respect shown at high school game
Authored by: DBCooper on Monday, September 11 2006 @ 10:39 PM MDT
So, Madison must be a pretty easy school to graduate from? If the students at Madison spent more time in the English department and less time standing on the bleachers, they'd know that it is "you're" not "your", and that unless they have been to the cloning lab they are an "alumnus" not an "alumni". The rest of your posts today are not much better. Gotta love the people who spent 5 figures on a degree and aren't any smarter than they were in 7th grade. Sorry. I've tried to be on my best behavior lately...
posted by Cheryl Hentz at 10:56 PM
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