Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Contributed by: Anonymous
Wasn't it a few weeks ago that the brilliant editors at the Oshkosh Northwestern (which Stu Rieckman is the ringleader of) chastised the Oshkosh Common Council for "waffling" on the issue of the $1.00 surcharge for tickets at the Leach Amphitheater?
Didn't they say that the surcharge was appropriate because the users of the amphitheater should pay for the maintenance, and not the taxpayers?
Well, in typical Stu hypocrisy fashion, in today's (5-5-05) Northwestern editorial, it seems he's done a 180. It now seems that it's a realistic approach to wait. Talk about waffling!!
What the hell are we going to wait for? If a $1.00 fee for a ticket is going to create problems for PMI or Waterfest, then we have bigger problems than some thought.
But I guess waiting and seeing is par for the course. After all we built this stupid thing without knowing how much it was going to cost the taxpayers (and we've still got phase II, III and God knows how many more phases at this taxpayer supported boondoggle.) We also didn't know at the conception who was going to run it, how much it is going to cost to maintain it, if we needed to hire more parks employees, etc., etc., etc.....
Well, now that the weather is better, maybe Bill Castle can get on the golf course with the "people in the know" and get some of these questions answered. When he gets the answers, I hope he calls Stu and lets him know which way the wind is blowing.
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Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, May 08 2005 @ 10:09 AM MDT
I think the charge should be $2.00. $1.00 to go for the maintenance, and $1.00 to go to pay off what the taxpayers had to pay for it to begin with.
Remember, we had some irresponsible Council members vote to take our tax dollars to build it!
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 07:52 AM MDT
That doesn't really sound like too bad of an idea. That way we could service the debt that much sooner and the people not using it could get off the hook sooner. The council will never go for it though. It's doubtful they have the collective courage to charge $1 much less $2.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 09:18 AM MDT
What a great idea, and concept!
This is where the rubber hits road with public/private partnerships. One of the problem with the private sector being able to decide in a vacum what projects
are "good" for the city and they have the dollars to make it happen. The concern is that there are never any long range plans, nor long range monetary plans to be set forth on how this projects are to be maintained or cared for. That is why the taxpayeyers are always on the hook long term and should have a greater say if or what should move forward as far as city projects.
Examples of what this is in practice and how it hasn't worked:1) Grand Opera House
2) the Zoo
3) The Market Square Fountain
please city council start being more demanding of full disclosure and if promises are made that they be kept. That full funding for project be made to include without taxpayers expense (ie maintance.)
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 10:36 AM MDT
Everyone here says that all of the taxpayers are against these items....
Then why did the people that are for these get elected April 5th, and those that were against them lose?
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: admin on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 10:53 AM MDT
Because many people did not go to the polls. They don't see the point and don't think it will make a difference in the long-run. Even though I think everyone needs to be responsible and vote, there are just some who won't. And while they then get the government they deserve, so do the rest of us who have voted and tried to make a difference. We have to find a way to make people see the light and make them more responsible.
- Cheryl Hentz
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 12:02 PM MDT
Or, maybe those that do not want to see progress are really in the monirity in Oshkosh.
Maybe most of Oshkosh sees the benifits to their city from these projects.
They are obvious, downtown is more welcoming than ever. The Leech Amphitheater will bring new people to do business downtown and see that Oshkosh is a town alive with progress.
And while at Leech - they will be able to spend all the money they want on concessions, knowing that there will be bathrooms to use - further relieving taxpayers of the burden of paying off these loans, when the city gets their cut.
It is a glorious day in a new Oshkosh - embrace it!
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 12:59 PM MDT
"Leech" is the operative word here. This thing is attaching itself to taxpayers and will only suck us dry. It is doubtful the people who are upset are not in the minority. All you have to do is look at the various opinion polls and that should tell you what you need to know. Ms Hentz has hit the nail on the head about why people don't vote. But it's not just here. It's the same all over the country. Perhaps apathy is not right but it is a reality. But just because someone doesn't vote doesn't mean they don't exist. Thanks for calling a spade a spade on what the bandshell really is. You've made the point for us without even trying to.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 01:07 PM MDT
What opinion polls? Surely you are not referring to the ones here? That would be a very bias poll.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 01:10 PM MDT
Sorry, but if you don't excercise your right to vote, you don't get a say in the making of public policy.
I would also love to see the "opinion polls" you are referring to- asking 8 guys on a saturday afternoon down at Evil Roy Slades doesn't count as a scientific data collection method. Besides, the only opinion poll that counts is the one that happens the first Tuesday of November and April every year. And we all saw the results of that pretty clearly.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 01:53 PM MDT
Any opinion poll. The one here is just as good as anywhere else. As you say, everyone has a chance to vote. Also, the Northwestern has run polls which have clearly shown how people feel too.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:13 PM MDT
Find me the dates those polls ran in the Northwestern and tell me what the results were. I may not have looked close enough and missed them, but if you plan on throwing opinion polls around as facts, you better be able to back them up. And you were kidding about the scientific validity of an Eye on Oshkosh poll, right? Who knows how many times the same people have voted in those biased things.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:18 PM MDT
Well the same could be true of any poll I suppose. But you can not vote repeatedly here, at least not more than something like once every 4 to 7 days. But if that's all people have to do is sit around and vote over and over again every several days then they have a problem.
Check with the newspaper on the dates of their online polls. The Northwestern is all for this development stuff yet their own polls showed people are opposed to it and the manner in which it is done.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:25 PM MDT
I, unlike you, don't trust any poll not conducted along strict guidelines, and the Northwestern's internet polls certainly are not in that category. If you would like, I can probably dig up an internet poll showing that 99% of Americans would like to see a monkey elected president in 2008, but that certainly doesn't make it so. Poorly conducted polls (such as Northwestern internet polls) are basically useless and reflect the sentiment of a slim, often biased, section of a population. Again, when it boils down to it, the only poll that matters happens on Election Day.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:42 PM MDT
If we really want to know what people think, the council members should ahve the guts to put these big spending projects on referendums. Then we'll really see what people want to spend their hard-earned money and and what they don't. They should also be easy to understand questions, not written in legalese.
For example: Do you want to spend $675,000 on bathrooms and a concessiona area at the Riverside Park ampthitheater? Yes or No? It's simple, to the point and gets to the heart of what the majority of people want.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 07:37 AM MDT
If you put spending issues on referendums in Oshkosh we would end up with nothing, and poor schools to boot. People rarely vote to increase their taxes.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 10:54 AM MDT
Not entirely true. People in this city hav already said they don't mind their taxes being increased for roads and basic things like that. They do ot want to have things that aren't necessary or that a good argument can't be made for. If you look at other communities you will see that people will give their support to things if a reasonable argument can be made about how they will benefit. If the people runnning the City of Oshkosh aren't as good of salespeople then perhaps they don't have a good enough reason for wanting the things they want. That's why the council is afraid to let the people have their say.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 11:07 AM MDT
Once again, the people had their say April 5th.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 12:47 PM MDT
Having one's say in an election of candidates is quite different from having one's say in a referendum about which projects we approve and don't approve. If your argument holds true the explain why there is so much support for and talk about a tacpayer bill of rights? It's because elections and candidates can be bought. You cannot buy a referendum which is exactly where we're going if TABOR passes. Thank God because it's long overdue that should stop the silliness and spending of taxpayer money like it is in a bottomless pit.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 01:06 PM MDT
If people are in such a hurry for better roads then why do we have so many poor roads when all it takes is a petition from the citizens on that street. Why, because they do not want their taxes to go up. Everyone wants better streets until it is theirs and they see the $$$$. We elect council people to make decisions. Referendums for everything? Where do yuo draw the line?
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 01:52 PM MDT
For your information, several petitions for streets to be done were filed and they have been sitting in city hall for years. The Northwestern did a story on this previously and it has been discussed at city council meetings. Apparently you do not follow city issues as closely as you think you do or you would know that. As for drawing the line, TABOR would cap the amount of money cities could spend without asking the people. That's where you draw the line.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 11:32 AM MDT
So the streets that have sewers from the 1800's have been on that list? Not! Yes there are some streets on the waiting list. But there are many streets with slum lords that do not want new streets. A few on a waiting list is just a small part of a huge problem. The current policy of petitioning is terrible. How about taking all streets to a referedum? They are large expenditures. Do you now see the stupidity of that argument?
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 01:41 PM MDT
What I see is the stupidity of your own argument. The city has the power, ability and responsibility to redo any street any time it is necessary, whether the slumlords you made reference to like it or not. So why haven't they? Instead they have been spending money left and right on other things that are not absolutely ncessary.
By the way, you reference slum lords being the cause of some of our streets being in such a state of disrepair because they won't sign petitions. I suppose you have first-hand knowledge of those landlords, eh? But you know what, even if you do, it doesn't matter because, again, the city can step in and require that a street be redone. they have chosen to ignore their responsiblity and focus instead on building an amphitheater and redoing a downtown whose future continue to remain questionable at best.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 03:52 PM MDT
How about the 1950's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's. Was it the Leach Amp. fault then also? This problem did not start in the past few years. We are in the 21st century and still have many streets in the heart of the city without curb and gutter. And you want to pin this on the current regime because they want a few nice things to attract people to this city. You really do not have a clue do you. Hopefully this new regime can bring us out of the dark ages.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 04:37 PM MDT
Talk about not having a clue. It is this regime and the very kind before them all these years that has us in the mess we're in, including with our streets. Coincidentally you referenced decades going all the way back to the 50's. It was in the 50's that we changed to the form of government we curently have. I think your point is excellent: we need a change of government; a complete overhaul. Sounds like the best idea yet. You're a genius.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 12 2005 @ 07:04 AM MDT
You would think the Jungwiths and Bloechls could have done something about the problem when they were in office. The "Chamber People" have only had control of the council the past few years. That leaves decades when they were not in control. Finally we have some people with a vision for the city and we are headed in the right direction. PROGRESS!!!! Please keep voting to keep the "cobblestoners" on the sidelines where they belong. It sure is nice to not have to hear Mr. Bender embarrass our city every 2 weeks.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 12 2005 @ 01:26 PM MDT
The Jungwirths and Bloechls could not do anything, any more than Esslinger or Poeschl were able to. That is because the chamber has had its own contingent in there for YEARS. Take a look at who they associate with, the members of the councils who have been through the so-called Leadership Oshkosh program, etc. Furthermore, take a look at who they support. The answers are no further than the nose on your face. So stop your *censored*ing about people like Melanie Bloechl, Mr. Jungwirth and Ken Bender. These people have helped make Oshkosh what it is. They are her people. They are also tax payers and have probably done more for this city than you. But let's see you step up to the plate and give something to this community, except for your two cents worth that, along with your progressive visionary, is costing us millions.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 01:23 PM MDT
As I commented elsewhere - Do you know how much it costs to have an election?
Do you think referendums are free?
Not only is TABOR bad policy - but it will cost the taxpayer even more to get less service.
Think it through.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 01:48 PM MDT
TABOR may not be the best policy in the world. BUt something has got to be done to get these elected officials to stop spending money without thinking things through or taking taxpayers needs and opinions into consideration. Doing the things this city council has done in the last year or two is worse policy.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 07:36 AM MDT
If everything these people have done in the last few years has been such bad policy, how would you explain the fact they they have re-elected and elected candidates who see spending issues in a certain way and gotten rid of candidates who see spending issues the opposite way?
And please don't trot out the tired excuses of low voter turnout and election financials- neither of these things change the fact the a majority of the public (through the ballat box, which is the only way that matters) supported the spending decisions of the city council over the last few years. This was shown ABSOLUTELY across the board in the last April elections. I apologize if you were unhappy with the outcome of those elections, but this is your democratic process at work. If people were as unhappy as you believe they are, they have their chance every April to show it. We saw this last April, and more people were happy with the council's spending decisons than were unhappy. That's an undisputible fact.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 01:44 PM MDT
You made the point for me - that the people who showed up at the ballot box were more pleased with spending than those who didn't. Those people, while they may constitute a majority of those who voted, do not constitute a majority of the taxpayers. If you doubt this then go knock on a few hundred doors throughout various parts of the city, not just the nice areas. Then tell us what you find. Until then, you might want to keep your opinions somewhat in check because you don't have a good handle on what's going on in this community.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 02:58 PM MDT
These people you speak of have one opportunity to truly make their voices heard, other than complaining to their friends behind closed doors. That opportunity is on the first tuesday of April. I'm sorry if they don't believe in their convictions enough to go vote. All the council statements, letters to the editors and private conversations don't mean a thing if you don't vote. That is the bottom line issue here, and I don't see any way to defend those who talk the talk and then don't walk the walk when it comes time to shape the direction of this city. Keep trying to defend it though, I suppose.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 04:39 PM MDT
Again, whether they vote or not they still have a say in how their money is being spent and the council still needs to take their viewpoints into consideration. But they refuse to do so. they are worthless when it comes to public consideration.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 12 2005 @ 07:09 AM MDT
We have a city of 60,000 people. If a few hundred, or even thousand complain about an issue or decision that is not a majority, no matter how much noise they make. We elect the council to make decisions for the whole city. There will always be a minority and a majority. If 50 people come to a meeting we do not change a vote that impacts 60,000 citizens,
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 12 2005 @ 01:30 PM MDT
First we are a city of 63,000 people, not 60,000. Second, it doesn't matter that only a few hundred spoke out. The fact is they spoke out and the school board has no one who could really counter those hundreds of parents. Plus they not only disregarded the concerns of parents but they were rude and arrogant in the process. They deserve to be booted out of office. I don't care if its now or late. I just want them gone. They have used up their usefulness on the school board, if they ever had any, that is.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 12 2005 @ 02:31 PM MDT
One thing I would like the people who are against every other Wed. early release to address is why only 1% of the surveys were returned to the district. If the majority of parents are agianst it why did they not return the survey to voice their opinion? That was the oportunity to speak if you had a problem with child care.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 12 2005 @ 07:47 PM MDT
Excuse me, but as long as the taxpayers are footing the bill, ANYTIME is the time to speak and this school board had better understand that and start paying attention.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 03:55 PM MDT
I will stick to the "nice areas". I value my safety.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 01:56 PM MDT
Let's see if I have this right. I don't vote so I don't get a voice in public policy making. Can I then opt out of paying for the crap I don't want? Seems I ought to be able to.
Your comment about Evil Roy Slade's is a cheap-ass remark. I don't drink and I don't associate with people who do. But perhaps those who think it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood have not only been drinking in the neighborhood bar but are drunk to boot.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:15 PM MDT
If you don't vote, you have given up your voice.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:23 PM MDT
You did not answer the question. If I don't vote and then have no voice or say in the matter, can I opt out of paying for the crap I don't want? I will pick and choose which things I want to pay for, just as I pick and choose which elections I participate in. Sound fair? Even if I don't vote I am still a taxpayer and still have a voice and who the hell do you think you are to try muting it! Get off your pompous high horse and do a reality check. If you don't want to give me a voice even if I don't vote, then do without my tax dollars. You and those like-minded souls like you can fund these niceities yourselves.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:26 PM MDT
If you are concerned about your taxes - campain, contribute and vote for those you think will help you.
Life is an all or nothing game.
You get nothing if you are not involved.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:45 PM MDT
Life is an all or nothing game. Okay I get it. I won't vote and I don't want to pay.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 03:54 PM MDT
I sincerely wish you luck with that. I hear the IRS is a TON of fun to deal with. Especially when you don't pay your taxes. Or are you just going to skip out on local taxes so vital service providers like firemen and police officers have a harder time doing their jobs?
Either way, great attitude. Really mature.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 04:48 PM MDT
Just trying to get that "all or nothing" deal you talked about. Better yet I like the idea of a referendum for major undertakings. That would really be putting the decisions about government in the people's hands and we could get away from so much of the crookedness we have going on in this city and since everyone thinks people like me who are fed up with silly spending are in the minority, then there should be no problem putting these kinds of things on a referendum. What do you say? Do you have the guts to support something like that? If you really believe the majority of people want all this spending let's put our money where our mouths are and see exactly where the rubber hits the road.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 09:24 PM MDT
So, you'll vote for a referendum, but not a candidate?
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 11:12 PM MDT
I'm speaking in hypotheticals but yes, there are some people who will do exactly that. After all, a referendum vote gives the people a direct say in whether or not their money should be spent. What can be simpler than that (provided it's written in very clear, basic language and not screwed up like the smoking ban referendum was). I have answered your questions, now how about answering mine. Would you be in support of putting major spending measures before the pubic in a referendum form?
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 05:41 AM MDT
We elect people to make these decisions.
Also, if we referendum everything - you want to talk about a waste of taxpayer money - do you know how much an election costs the city?
Buying the ballots - paying the pollworkers - publishing the announcements... and on and on.
You will waste more money than the project you are voting on.
We elect councilors to make these decisions - if the decisions they make are not popular, they will be voted off (as happened this April).
I believe the April election was a referendum on the downtown projects.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 10:57 AM MDT
The April election was most assuredly not a referendum on downtown projects. Get real. We need TABOR and then the elected officials will have to be come to the people for big-ticket spending.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 11:09 AM MDT
You did not addrss the cost of having referendums for every spending project?
How does this make sense?
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 12:50 PM MDT
It would not be every spending project, just the major ones. If money can be saved by not passing some of the ridiculous spending then the cost of running such an election is well worth every penny.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 01:10 PM MDT
Who is to define what is ridiculous spending. So, everything you do not agree with is ridiculous spending? Many think the Ampitheatre is money well spent.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 01:49 PM MDT
A referendum will define what is ridiculous and not by virtue of what the people want.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 12:44 PM MDT
I tend to agree. I, as a well informed citizen, do not want to spend a great deal of my time pouring over details of proposals for projects presented to the city. I want to know the basics (costs, demographic use, pay off time frame, benefits - both quality of life and effect on tax basis). Let the elected officials pour over the details and vote after they have ALL the facts.
What we see/hear in the media is nothing more than a summary of the projects. There is not near enough detail for us to make informed decisions on the numerous referendums that would have to take place.
I voted. And I trust those I voted for. I also believe that those I didn't vote for will continue to look into the details and vote as they feel their constituents would vote.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 10:53 AM MDT
I am in absolute agreement with the last poster. April 5 2005, although not technically a referendum, in many ways was a chance for the majority of the public in this city to show how they felt about contentious spending issues. The majoity of that public voted in new and returning candidates who supported their view of city spending and voted out those who didn't. Plain and simple. Had all the taxpayers in this community been against the spending policies of the recent council, they had their opportunity to voice their opposition. Quite simply, it didn't happen.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 01:03 PM MDT
Why should people vote, nothing is going to change! When the Oshkosh Common Council votes illegally (waiving of the bids at the Amphitheater) and nothing is done about that, what makes you think the voters will be confident that their one vote is going to make a difference?!
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 01:11 PM MDT
If you think it was illegal, then file a law suit. While I agree with you it may very well have been illegal, if no one is going to step up and file a law suit then lets stop whining about it.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 01:30 PM MDT
Maybe you have the thousands of dollars it would take to file a lawsuit?
Please let me know.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:02 PM MDT
Good point about needing thousands of dollars to file a suit. I don't have it. I have to pay for an amphitheater and downtown redevelopment. Besides to file a lawsuit would only cost the plaintiff double money. Their own to file the suit and they'd be suing the city which is made up of citizens. We pay the isurance premiums through our taxes. Not only that but all that would probbaly happen is they'd have to stop construction and bid the work out. The way these people are so crooked they'd see to it that Bill Castle's frineds got the job again and we'd be right back where we are now.
Maybe someone shoud file a complaint with the DA's office though and let the process work that way. Perhaps there could be a little more action taken than just an opinion rendered. Interesting though how Warren Kraft picks and chooses what opinions from the attorney general's office he listens to. He is so full of it. Either the AG's office knows what they are talking about or they don't. It is as simple as that.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:11 PM MDT
Perhaps the "cobblestoners" should change their name to "naysayers". It seems they have nothing to offer but negativity. I couldnt agree more with the above sentiment that the voters have spoken. Maybe it is time for the "naysayers" to realize they are in the minority. I am glad Oshkosh is finally starting to realize the potential they have as a place for people to go. Do any of the "naysayers" realize that the new ampitheater could possbily be one of the best small venue outdoor ampitheater's in the state and possibly the Midwest? I will gladly pay an additional dollar for a concert. Have you ever experienced Ticketmasters service charges? Not a lot in the big scheme of things! Since we are always comparing ourselves to our neighbors, where does Appleton hold their outdoor concerts? Fox Cities Stadium, a baseball field! This facility could end up being the crown jewel of outdoor venues in the area. Once the reputation is established who knows what could happen.
As far as another supposed "boondoggle", the zoo at Menominee was packed this past
Mother's Day with people. The most people I have ever seen their at one time. We bought our season pass for $12.00. While picking it up there must have been 15- 20 other season passes sitting there waiting to be picked up. No it will never compete with bigger zoo's, but for $12 I can take my small children for a 15 minute visit once a week all summer! Maybe it is time to start appreciating some of the things that Oshkosh has to offer that many similar size cities don't have.
Flame away!
Jim B.
Wasn't it a few weeks ago that the brilliant editors at the Oshkosh Northwestern (which Stu Rieckman is the ringleader of) chastised the Oshkosh Common Council for "waffling" on the issue of the $1.00 surcharge for tickets at the Leach Amphitheater?
Didn't they say that the surcharge was appropriate because the users of the amphitheater should pay for the maintenance, and not the taxpayers?
Well, in typical Stu hypocrisy fashion, in today's (5-5-05) Northwestern editorial, it seems he's done a 180. It now seems that it's a realistic approach to wait. Talk about waffling!!
What the hell are we going to wait for? If a $1.00 fee for a ticket is going to create problems for PMI or Waterfest, then we have bigger problems than some thought.
But I guess waiting and seeing is par for the course. After all we built this stupid thing without knowing how much it was going to cost the taxpayers (and we've still got phase II, III and God knows how many more phases at this taxpayer supported boondoggle.) We also didn't know at the conception who was going to run it, how much it is going to cost to maintain it, if we needed to hire more parks employees, etc., etc., etc.....
Well, now that the weather is better, maybe Bill Castle can get on the golf course with the "people in the know" and get some of these questions answered. When he gets the answers, I hope he calls Stu and lets him know which way the wind is blowing.
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, May 08 2005 @ 10:09 AM MDT
I think the charge should be $2.00. $1.00 to go for the maintenance, and $1.00 to go to pay off what the taxpayers had to pay for it to begin with.
Remember, we had some irresponsible Council members vote to take our tax dollars to build it!
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 07:52 AM MDT
That doesn't really sound like too bad of an idea. That way we could service the debt that much sooner and the people not using it could get off the hook sooner. The council will never go for it though. It's doubtful they have the collective courage to charge $1 much less $2.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 09:18 AM MDT
What a great idea, and concept!
This is where the rubber hits road with public/private partnerships. One of the problem with the private sector being able to decide in a vacum what projects
are "good" for the city and they have the dollars to make it happen. The concern is that there are never any long range plans, nor long range monetary plans to be set forth on how this projects are to be maintained or cared for. That is why the taxpayeyers are always on the hook long term and should have a greater say if or what should move forward as far as city projects.
Examples of what this is in practice and how it hasn't worked:1) Grand Opera House
2) the Zoo
3) The Market Square Fountain
please city council start being more demanding of full disclosure and if promises are made that they be kept. That full funding for project be made to include without taxpayers expense (ie maintance.)
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 10:36 AM MDT
Everyone here says that all of the taxpayers are against these items....
Then why did the people that are for these get elected April 5th, and those that were against them lose?
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: admin on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 10:53 AM MDT
Because many people did not go to the polls. They don't see the point and don't think it will make a difference in the long-run. Even though I think everyone needs to be responsible and vote, there are just some who won't. And while they then get the government they deserve, so do the rest of us who have voted and tried to make a difference. We have to find a way to make people see the light and make them more responsible.
- Cheryl Hentz
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 12:02 PM MDT
Or, maybe those that do not want to see progress are really in the monirity in Oshkosh.
Maybe most of Oshkosh sees the benifits to their city from these projects.
They are obvious, downtown is more welcoming than ever. The Leech Amphitheater will bring new people to do business downtown and see that Oshkosh is a town alive with progress.
And while at Leech - they will be able to spend all the money they want on concessions, knowing that there will be bathrooms to use - further relieving taxpayers of the burden of paying off these loans, when the city gets their cut.
It is a glorious day in a new Oshkosh - embrace it!
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 12:59 PM MDT
"Leech" is the operative word here. This thing is attaching itself to taxpayers and will only suck us dry. It is doubtful the people who are upset are not in the minority. All you have to do is look at the various opinion polls and that should tell you what you need to know. Ms Hentz has hit the nail on the head about why people don't vote. But it's not just here. It's the same all over the country. Perhaps apathy is not right but it is a reality. But just because someone doesn't vote doesn't mean they don't exist. Thanks for calling a spade a spade on what the bandshell really is. You've made the point for us without even trying to.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 01:07 PM MDT
What opinion polls? Surely you are not referring to the ones here? That would be a very bias poll.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 01:10 PM MDT
Sorry, but if you don't excercise your right to vote, you don't get a say in the making of public policy.
I would also love to see the "opinion polls" you are referring to- asking 8 guys on a saturday afternoon down at Evil Roy Slades doesn't count as a scientific data collection method. Besides, the only opinion poll that counts is the one that happens the first Tuesday of November and April every year. And we all saw the results of that pretty clearly.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 01:53 PM MDT
Any opinion poll. The one here is just as good as anywhere else. As you say, everyone has a chance to vote. Also, the Northwestern has run polls which have clearly shown how people feel too.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:13 PM MDT
Find me the dates those polls ran in the Northwestern and tell me what the results were. I may not have looked close enough and missed them, but if you plan on throwing opinion polls around as facts, you better be able to back them up. And you were kidding about the scientific validity of an Eye on Oshkosh poll, right? Who knows how many times the same people have voted in those biased things.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:18 PM MDT
Well the same could be true of any poll I suppose. But you can not vote repeatedly here, at least not more than something like once every 4 to 7 days. But if that's all people have to do is sit around and vote over and over again every several days then they have a problem.
Check with the newspaper on the dates of their online polls. The Northwestern is all for this development stuff yet their own polls showed people are opposed to it and the manner in which it is done.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:25 PM MDT
I, unlike you, don't trust any poll not conducted along strict guidelines, and the Northwestern's internet polls certainly are not in that category. If you would like, I can probably dig up an internet poll showing that 99% of Americans would like to see a monkey elected president in 2008, but that certainly doesn't make it so. Poorly conducted polls (such as Northwestern internet polls) are basically useless and reflect the sentiment of a slim, often biased, section of a population. Again, when it boils down to it, the only poll that matters happens on Election Day.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:42 PM MDT
If we really want to know what people think, the council members should ahve the guts to put these big spending projects on referendums. Then we'll really see what people want to spend their hard-earned money and and what they don't. They should also be easy to understand questions, not written in legalese.
For example: Do you want to spend $675,000 on bathrooms and a concessiona area at the Riverside Park ampthitheater? Yes or No? It's simple, to the point and gets to the heart of what the majority of people want.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 07:37 AM MDT
If you put spending issues on referendums in Oshkosh we would end up with nothing, and poor schools to boot. People rarely vote to increase their taxes.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 10:54 AM MDT
Not entirely true. People in this city hav already said they don't mind their taxes being increased for roads and basic things like that. They do ot want to have things that aren't necessary or that a good argument can't be made for. If you look at other communities you will see that people will give their support to things if a reasonable argument can be made about how they will benefit. If the people runnning the City of Oshkosh aren't as good of salespeople then perhaps they don't have a good enough reason for wanting the things they want. That's why the council is afraid to let the people have their say.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 11:07 AM MDT
Once again, the people had their say April 5th.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 12:47 PM MDT
Having one's say in an election of candidates is quite different from having one's say in a referendum about which projects we approve and don't approve. If your argument holds true the explain why there is so much support for and talk about a tacpayer bill of rights? It's because elections and candidates can be bought. You cannot buy a referendum which is exactly where we're going if TABOR passes. Thank God because it's long overdue that should stop the silliness and spending of taxpayer money like it is in a bottomless pit.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 01:06 PM MDT
If people are in such a hurry for better roads then why do we have so many poor roads when all it takes is a petition from the citizens on that street. Why, because they do not want their taxes to go up. Everyone wants better streets until it is theirs and they see the $$$$. We elect council people to make decisions. Referendums for everything? Where do yuo draw the line?
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 01:52 PM MDT
For your information, several petitions for streets to be done were filed and they have been sitting in city hall for years. The Northwestern did a story on this previously and it has been discussed at city council meetings. Apparently you do not follow city issues as closely as you think you do or you would know that. As for drawing the line, TABOR would cap the amount of money cities could spend without asking the people. That's where you draw the line.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 11:32 AM MDT
So the streets that have sewers from the 1800's have been on that list? Not! Yes there are some streets on the waiting list. But there are many streets with slum lords that do not want new streets. A few on a waiting list is just a small part of a huge problem. The current policy of petitioning is terrible. How about taking all streets to a referedum? They are large expenditures. Do you now see the stupidity of that argument?
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 01:41 PM MDT
What I see is the stupidity of your own argument. The city has the power, ability and responsibility to redo any street any time it is necessary, whether the slumlords you made reference to like it or not. So why haven't they? Instead they have been spending money left and right on other things that are not absolutely ncessary.
By the way, you reference slum lords being the cause of some of our streets being in such a state of disrepair because they won't sign petitions. I suppose you have first-hand knowledge of those landlords, eh? But you know what, even if you do, it doesn't matter because, again, the city can step in and require that a street be redone. they have chosen to ignore their responsiblity and focus instead on building an amphitheater and redoing a downtown whose future continue to remain questionable at best.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 03:52 PM MDT
How about the 1950's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's. Was it the Leach Amp. fault then also? This problem did not start in the past few years. We are in the 21st century and still have many streets in the heart of the city without curb and gutter. And you want to pin this on the current regime because they want a few nice things to attract people to this city. You really do not have a clue do you. Hopefully this new regime can bring us out of the dark ages.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 04:37 PM MDT
Talk about not having a clue. It is this regime and the very kind before them all these years that has us in the mess we're in, including with our streets. Coincidentally you referenced decades going all the way back to the 50's. It was in the 50's that we changed to the form of government we curently have. I think your point is excellent: we need a change of government; a complete overhaul. Sounds like the best idea yet. You're a genius.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 12 2005 @ 07:04 AM MDT
You would think the Jungwiths and Bloechls could have done something about the problem when they were in office. The "Chamber People" have only had control of the council the past few years. That leaves decades when they were not in control. Finally we have some people with a vision for the city and we are headed in the right direction. PROGRESS!!!! Please keep voting to keep the "cobblestoners" on the sidelines where they belong. It sure is nice to not have to hear Mr. Bender embarrass our city every 2 weeks.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 12 2005 @ 01:26 PM MDT
The Jungwirths and Bloechls could not do anything, any more than Esslinger or Poeschl were able to. That is because the chamber has had its own contingent in there for YEARS. Take a look at who they associate with, the members of the councils who have been through the so-called Leadership Oshkosh program, etc. Furthermore, take a look at who they support. The answers are no further than the nose on your face. So stop your *censored*ing about people like Melanie Bloechl, Mr. Jungwirth and Ken Bender. These people have helped make Oshkosh what it is. They are her people. They are also tax payers and have probably done more for this city than you. But let's see you step up to the plate and give something to this community, except for your two cents worth that, along with your progressive visionary, is costing us millions.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 01:23 PM MDT
As I commented elsewhere - Do you know how much it costs to have an election?
Do you think referendums are free?
Not only is TABOR bad policy - but it will cost the taxpayer even more to get less service.
Think it through.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 01:48 PM MDT
TABOR may not be the best policy in the world. BUt something has got to be done to get these elected officials to stop spending money without thinking things through or taking taxpayers needs and opinions into consideration. Doing the things this city council has done in the last year or two is worse policy.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 07:36 AM MDT
If everything these people have done in the last few years has been such bad policy, how would you explain the fact they they have re-elected and elected candidates who see spending issues in a certain way and gotten rid of candidates who see spending issues the opposite way?
And please don't trot out the tired excuses of low voter turnout and election financials- neither of these things change the fact the a majority of the public (through the ballat box, which is the only way that matters) supported the spending decisions of the city council over the last few years. This was shown ABSOLUTELY across the board in the last April elections. I apologize if you were unhappy with the outcome of those elections, but this is your democratic process at work. If people were as unhappy as you believe they are, they have their chance every April to show it. We saw this last April, and more people were happy with the council's spending decisons than were unhappy. That's an undisputible fact.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 01:44 PM MDT
You made the point for me - that the people who showed up at the ballot box were more pleased with spending than those who didn't. Those people, while they may constitute a majority of those who voted, do not constitute a majority of the taxpayers. If you doubt this then go knock on a few hundred doors throughout various parts of the city, not just the nice areas. Then tell us what you find. Until then, you might want to keep your opinions somewhat in check because you don't have a good handle on what's going on in this community.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 02:58 PM MDT
These people you speak of have one opportunity to truly make their voices heard, other than complaining to their friends behind closed doors. That opportunity is on the first tuesday of April. I'm sorry if they don't believe in their convictions enough to go vote. All the council statements, letters to the editors and private conversations don't mean a thing if you don't vote. That is the bottom line issue here, and I don't see any way to defend those who talk the talk and then don't walk the walk when it comes time to shape the direction of this city. Keep trying to defend it though, I suppose.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 04:39 PM MDT
Again, whether they vote or not they still have a say in how their money is being spent and the council still needs to take their viewpoints into consideration. But they refuse to do so. they are worthless when it comes to public consideration.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 12 2005 @ 07:09 AM MDT
We have a city of 60,000 people. If a few hundred, or even thousand complain about an issue or decision that is not a majority, no matter how much noise they make. We elect the council to make decisions for the whole city. There will always be a minority and a majority. If 50 people come to a meeting we do not change a vote that impacts 60,000 citizens,
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 12 2005 @ 01:30 PM MDT
First we are a city of 63,000 people, not 60,000. Second, it doesn't matter that only a few hundred spoke out. The fact is they spoke out and the school board has no one who could really counter those hundreds of parents. Plus they not only disregarded the concerns of parents but they were rude and arrogant in the process. They deserve to be booted out of office. I don't care if its now or late. I just want them gone. They have used up their usefulness on the school board, if they ever had any, that is.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 12 2005 @ 02:31 PM MDT
One thing I would like the people who are against every other Wed. early release to address is why only 1% of the surveys were returned to the district. If the majority of parents are agianst it why did they not return the survey to voice their opinion? That was the oportunity to speak if you had a problem with child care.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 12 2005 @ 07:47 PM MDT
Excuse me, but as long as the taxpayers are footing the bill, ANYTIME is the time to speak and this school board had better understand that and start paying attention.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11 2005 @ 03:55 PM MDT
I will stick to the "nice areas". I value my safety.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 01:56 PM MDT
Let's see if I have this right. I don't vote so I don't get a voice in public policy making. Can I then opt out of paying for the crap I don't want? Seems I ought to be able to.
Your comment about Evil Roy Slade's is a cheap-ass remark. I don't drink and I don't associate with people who do. But perhaps those who think it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood have not only been drinking in the neighborhood bar but are drunk to boot.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:15 PM MDT
If you don't vote, you have given up your voice.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:23 PM MDT
You did not answer the question. If I don't vote and then have no voice or say in the matter, can I opt out of paying for the crap I don't want? I will pick and choose which things I want to pay for, just as I pick and choose which elections I participate in. Sound fair? Even if I don't vote I am still a taxpayer and still have a voice and who the hell do you think you are to try muting it! Get off your pompous high horse and do a reality check. If you don't want to give me a voice even if I don't vote, then do without my tax dollars. You and those like-minded souls like you can fund these niceities yourselves.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:26 PM MDT
If you are concerned about your taxes - campain, contribute and vote for those you think will help you.
Life is an all or nothing game.
You get nothing if you are not involved.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:45 PM MDT
Life is an all or nothing game. Okay I get it. I won't vote and I don't want to pay.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 03:54 PM MDT
I sincerely wish you luck with that. I hear the IRS is a TON of fun to deal with. Especially when you don't pay your taxes. Or are you just going to skip out on local taxes so vital service providers like firemen and police officers have a harder time doing their jobs?
Either way, great attitude. Really mature.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 04:48 PM MDT
Just trying to get that "all or nothing" deal you talked about. Better yet I like the idea of a referendum for major undertakings. That would really be putting the decisions about government in the people's hands and we could get away from so much of the crookedness we have going on in this city and since everyone thinks people like me who are fed up with silly spending are in the minority, then there should be no problem putting these kinds of things on a referendum. What do you say? Do you have the guts to support something like that? If you really believe the majority of people want all this spending let's put our money where our mouths are and see exactly where the rubber hits the road.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 09:24 PM MDT
So, you'll vote for a referendum, but not a candidate?
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 11:12 PM MDT
I'm speaking in hypotheticals but yes, there are some people who will do exactly that. After all, a referendum vote gives the people a direct say in whether or not their money should be spent. What can be simpler than that (provided it's written in very clear, basic language and not screwed up like the smoking ban referendum was). I have answered your questions, now how about answering mine. Would you be in support of putting major spending measures before the pubic in a referendum form?
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 05:41 AM MDT
We elect people to make these decisions.
Also, if we referendum everything - you want to talk about a waste of taxpayer money - do you know how much an election costs the city?
Buying the ballots - paying the pollworkers - publishing the announcements... and on and on.
You will waste more money than the project you are voting on.
We elect councilors to make these decisions - if the decisions they make are not popular, they will be voted off (as happened this April).
I believe the April election was a referendum on the downtown projects.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 10:57 AM MDT
The April election was most assuredly not a referendum on downtown projects. Get real. We need TABOR and then the elected officials will have to be come to the people for big-ticket spending.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 11:09 AM MDT
You did not addrss the cost of having referendums for every spending project?
How does this make sense?
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 12:50 PM MDT
It would not be every spending project, just the major ones. If money can be saved by not passing some of the ridiculous spending then the cost of running such an election is well worth every penny.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 01:10 PM MDT
Who is to define what is ridiculous spending. So, everything you do not agree with is ridiculous spending? Many think the Ampitheatre is money well spent.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 01:49 PM MDT
A referendum will define what is ridiculous and not by virtue of what the people want.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10 2005 @ 12:44 PM MDT
I tend to agree. I, as a well informed citizen, do not want to spend a great deal of my time pouring over details of proposals for projects presented to the city. I want to know the basics (costs, demographic use, pay off time frame, benefits - both quality of life and effect on tax basis). Let the elected officials pour over the details and vote after they have ALL the facts.
What we see/hear in the media is nothing more than a summary of the projects. There is not near enough detail for us to make informed decisions on the numerous referendums that would have to take place.
I voted. And I trust those I voted for. I also believe that those I didn't vote for will continue to look into the details and vote as they feel their constituents would vote.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 10:53 AM MDT
I am in absolute agreement with the last poster. April 5 2005, although not technically a referendum, in many ways was a chance for the majority of the public in this city to show how they felt about contentious spending issues. The majoity of that public voted in new and returning candidates who supported their view of city spending and voted out those who didn't. Plain and simple. Had all the taxpayers in this community been against the spending policies of the recent council, they had their opportunity to voice their opposition. Quite simply, it didn't happen.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 01:03 PM MDT
Why should people vote, nothing is going to change! When the Oshkosh Common Council votes illegally (waiving of the bids at the Amphitheater) and nothing is done about that, what makes you think the voters will be confident that their one vote is going to make a difference?!
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 01:11 PM MDT
If you think it was illegal, then file a law suit. While I agree with you it may very well have been illegal, if no one is going to step up and file a law suit then lets stop whining about it.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 01:30 PM MDT
Maybe you have the thousands of dollars it would take to file a lawsuit?
Please let me know.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:02 PM MDT
Good point about needing thousands of dollars to file a suit. I don't have it. I have to pay for an amphitheater and downtown redevelopment. Besides to file a lawsuit would only cost the plaintiff double money. Their own to file the suit and they'd be suing the city which is made up of citizens. We pay the isurance premiums through our taxes. Not only that but all that would probbaly happen is they'd have to stop construction and bid the work out. The way these people are so crooked they'd see to it that Bill Castle's frineds got the job again and we'd be right back where we are now.
Maybe someone shoud file a complaint with the DA's office though and let the process work that way. Perhaps there could be a little more action taken than just an opinion rendered. Interesting though how Warren Kraft picks and chooses what opinions from the attorney general's office he listens to. He is so full of it. Either the AG's office knows what they are talking about or they don't. It is as simple as that.
Hey Stu, which way is the wind blowing?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 09 2005 @ 02:11 PM MDT
Perhaps the "cobblestoners" should change their name to "naysayers". It seems they have nothing to offer but negativity. I couldnt agree more with the above sentiment that the voters have spoken. Maybe it is time for the "naysayers" to realize they are in the minority. I am glad Oshkosh is finally starting to realize the potential they have as a place for people to go. Do any of the "naysayers" realize that the new ampitheater could possbily be one of the best small venue outdoor ampitheater's in the state and possibly the Midwest? I will gladly pay an additional dollar for a concert. Have you ever experienced Ticketmasters service charges? Not a lot in the big scheme of things! Since we are always comparing ourselves to our neighbors, where does Appleton hold their outdoor concerts? Fox Cities Stadium, a baseball field! This facility could end up being the crown jewel of outdoor venues in the area. Once the reputation is established who knows what could happen.
As far as another supposed "boondoggle", the zoo at Menominee was packed this past
Mother's Day with people. The most people I have ever seen their at one time. We bought our season pass for $12.00. While picking it up there must have been 15- 20 other season passes sitting there waiting to be picked up. No it will never compete with bigger zoo's, but for $12 I can take my small children for a 15 minute visit once a week all summer! Maybe it is time to start appreciating some of the things that Oshkosh has to offer that many similar size cities don't have.
Flame away!
Jim B.
posted by Cheryl Hentz at 1:38 PM
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