Smoking Ban Fiasco
Contributed by: Jim B.
It takes the powerful Hilton corporate lawyers to find the loophole in the smoking ban. The Lindbergh Club is designated a private club so smoking is allowed. Now other restaurants are trying to do the same thing and being smacked down by the city. This whole thing stinks!!! I am not a smoker, but I just don't see the logic in creating an uneven playing field for businesses. Take the Gardenview on Jackson. Their property is not completely in the city of Oshkosh so they are expempt. It is a nice place to eat, owned by very nice people, but should they have an advantage over restaurants that are within a two mile radius. It appears the same thing is happening in Appleton and Madison. Although they both took it a step further and made it all bars and taverns(i.e. all workplaces).
If it is going to continue it should be a statewide ban!!!
Jim B.
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Smoking Ban Fiasco
Authored by: admin on Friday, July 29 2005 @ 09:57 PM MDT
Jim, I agree with you that if there is going to be a smoking ban it should be statewide. My difficulty in it being in all workplaces is that there are so many people now working from home - either telecommuting or with owning an in-home business. And with ordinances such as the one in Appleton, it is my understanding that even if you, as the businessowner and homeowner, are the only employee of that business, you still cannot smoke in that workplace environment. It does not seem right that government at any level can legislate what we do in our private homes. Some considerations, I believe, need to be made when enacting certain legislation like a workplace smoking ban.
- Cheryl Hentz
Smoking Ban Fiasco
Authored by: Kent Monte on Monday, August 01 2005 @ 04:27 PM MDT
I agree that the smoking ban needs to be statewide. The Fox Cities is seeing why. Appleton began the workplace ban one month ago and now area businesses are seeing drops/gains in sales depending on location. There are 2 articles in todays Post Crescent that cover the ban. It really has put things in perspective. The state is looking at a statewide ban, but the Governor is going to veto it based on the strength. He feels that the ban that is proposed is not strong enough. He doesn't want the local governments to lose anything that is already in place. I really wonder if there is a solution?
Smoking Ban Fiasco
Authored by: admin on Monday, August 01 2005 @ 08:41 PM MDT
It is wreaking havoc on businesses in Appleton. Yet we have people like former Oshkosh school board member Theresa Thiel writing letters to the editor of the local paper saying there's no proof that businesses have lost money due to a smoking ban.
That is an ignorant comment to make, and evidently, one that a whole lot of business owners would like to chat with Mrs. Thiel about. Clearly, she hasn't actually talked to affected business owners to have a truly enlightened point of view. But in her defense, I guess it's easy to make statements like hers when your "facts" are skewed, you believe propoganda from ban proponents who have no money at stake in these businesses and you don't have to make ends meet with the income you receive from sales under a smoking ban like Appleton has - diminished as those sales may be.
- Cheryl Hentz
Smoking Ban Fiasco
Authored by: Kent Monte on Monday, August 01 2005 @ 09:36 PM MDT
You are absolutely correct. I know one of the managers of an Appleton business (one that I should not name) and he said that his bar business is down more than 50% compared to last July. One person I talked to said that he was in this sports bar at 10pm on a Sat. night and he was alone with 2 bartenders. This particular sports bar has at least 2 other bars within 2 blocks in either direction that people can smoke (Grand Chute). What are those business owners supposed to do? Now the City Counsel is looking at an exemption. I hope that it won't be too late. Again, remember that I don't care about smoking, I just don't think that it is fair for anyone to tell a business owner whether or not smoking is allowed in their own building.
PS, I noticed the name calling and insulting has stopped. People aren't so brave when they can't throw stones from cover. Great job Cheryl!
Smoking Ban Fiasco
Authored by: Jim B. on Tuesday, August 02 2005 @ 08:31 AM MDT
Interesting articles in the Post Crescent. The true sign of this ban not working is the increase of business in Grand Chute and Menasha. These bars are seeing an increase in sales while Appleton is seeing decreases. Talk about an uneven playing field. Do the ban advocates realize they are shifting business from their municipalities to others? And how about the arrogance of the advocate who basically said that these people just need to get over it and move on. If they would stop being bitter about it things would improve. Wow, she actually said that!!!!
I concur about the lack of venom on this site, but why can't all the anonymous check in and engage in true debate?
Jim B.
Smoking Ban Fiasco
Authored by: Kent Monte on Tuesday, August 02 2005 @ 11:33 AM MDT
I think that anonymous should be able to read, but they should need to say who they are if they want to speak. They still have the opportunity to speak out anonymously if they go through the administrator to do it. That will eliminate the spite that has been taking place.
Cheryl, could it be set up so that everyone could read the comments whether they are signed in or not without being able to post? [the preceding comment about anonymous postings and/or the ability for anonymous persons to read comments already posted was made in reference to an earlier version of Eye on Oshkosh, not the current one.]
It takes the powerful Hilton corporate lawyers to find the loophole in the smoking ban. The Lindbergh Club is designated a private club so smoking is allowed. Now other restaurants are trying to do the same thing and being smacked down by the city. This whole thing stinks!!! I am not a smoker, but I just don't see the logic in creating an uneven playing field for businesses. Take the Gardenview on Jackson. Their property is not completely in the city of Oshkosh so they are expempt. It is a nice place to eat, owned by very nice people, but should they have an advantage over restaurants that are within a two mile radius. It appears the same thing is happening in Appleton and Madison. Although they both took it a step further and made it all bars and taverns(i.e. all workplaces).
If it is going to continue it should be a statewide ban!!!
Jim B.
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Smoking Ban Fiasco
Authored by: admin on Friday, July 29 2005 @ 09:57 PM MDT
Jim, I agree with you that if there is going to be a smoking ban it should be statewide. My difficulty in it being in all workplaces is that there are so many people now working from home - either telecommuting or with owning an in-home business. And with ordinances such as the one in Appleton, it is my understanding that even if you, as the businessowner and homeowner, are the only employee of that business, you still cannot smoke in that workplace environment. It does not seem right that government at any level can legislate what we do in our private homes. Some considerations, I believe, need to be made when enacting certain legislation like a workplace smoking ban.
- Cheryl Hentz
Smoking Ban Fiasco
Authored by: Kent Monte on Monday, August 01 2005 @ 04:27 PM MDT
I agree that the smoking ban needs to be statewide. The Fox Cities is seeing why. Appleton began the workplace ban one month ago and now area businesses are seeing drops/gains in sales depending on location. There are 2 articles in todays Post Crescent that cover the ban. It really has put things in perspective. The state is looking at a statewide ban, but the Governor is going to veto it based on the strength. He feels that the ban that is proposed is not strong enough. He doesn't want the local governments to lose anything that is already in place. I really wonder if there is a solution?
Smoking Ban Fiasco
Authored by: admin on Monday, August 01 2005 @ 08:41 PM MDT
It is wreaking havoc on businesses in Appleton. Yet we have people like former Oshkosh school board member Theresa Thiel writing letters to the editor of the local paper saying there's no proof that businesses have lost money due to a smoking ban.
That is an ignorant comment to make, and evidently, one that a whole lot of business owners would like to chat with Mrs. Thiel about. Clearly, she hasn't actually talked to affected business owners to have a truly enlightened point of view. But in her defense, I guess it's easy to make statements like hers when your "facts" are skewed, you believe propoganda from ban proponents who have no money at stake in these businesses and you don't have to make ends meet with the income you receive from sales under a smoking ban like Appleton has - diminished as those sales may be.
- Cheryl Hentz
Smoking Ban Fiasco
Authored by: Kent Monte on Monday, August 01 2005 @ 09:36 PM MDT
You are absolutely correct. I know one of the managers of an Appleton business (one that I should not name) and he said that his bar business is down more than 50% compared to last July. One person I talked to said that he was in this sports bar at 10pm on a Sat. night and he was alone with 2 bartenders. This particular sports bar has at least 2 other bars within 2 blocks in either direction that people can smoke (Grand Chute). What are those business owners supposed to do? Now the City Counsel is looking at an exemption. I hope that it won't be too late. Again, remember that I don't care about smoking, I just don't think that it is fair for anyone to tell a business owner whether or not smoking is allowed in their own building.
PS, I noticed the name calling and insulting has stopped. People aren't so brave when they can't throw stones from cover. Great job Cheryl!
Smoking Ban Fiasco
Authored by: Jim B. on Tuesday, August 02 2005 @ 08:31 AM MDT
Interesting articles in the Post Crescent. The true sign of this ban not working is the increase of business in Grand Chute and Menasha. These bars are seeing an increase in sales while Appleton is seeing decreases. Talk about an uneven playing field. Do the ban advocates realize they are shifting business from their municipalities to others? And how about the arrogance of the advocate who basically said that these people just need to get over it and move on. If they would stop being bitter about it things would improve. Wow, she actually said that!!!!
I concur about the lack of venom on this site, but why can't all the anonymous check in and engage in true debate?
Jim B.
Smoking Ban Fiasco
Authored by: Kent Monte on Tuesday, August 02 2005 @ 11:33 AM MDT
I think that anonymous should be able to read, but they should need to say who they are if they want to speak. They still have the opportunity to speak out anonymously if they go through the administrator to do it. That will eliminate the spite that has been taking place.
Cheryl, could it be set up so that everyone could read the comments whether they are signed in or not without being able to post? [the preceding comment about anonymous postings and/or the ability for anonymous persons to read comments already posted was made in reference to an earlier version of Eye on Oshkosh, not the current one.]
posted by Cheryl Hentz at 10:18 AM
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