Amphitheater Bathrooms
Contributed by: Anonymous
Once again we get another opinion that says the council broke the law and we still get the same arrogant, condecending comments coming from city hall. Wow...what is it going to take for those people to admit that they didn't follow the proper procedures? Maybe a civil lawsuit naming them personally?? I doubt a petition for a declaratory judgement would even make these people admit their errors.
Something needs to be done to put these people on notice that this type of behavior will have consequences in the future.
Maybe this bathroom bidding incident was purely a poor opinion from the city attorney. BUT...the state statutes regarding the bidding of contracts were put into place to not only protect the citizens and their tax money, but also to protect the the council members from looking like they bent over to help a well connected contractor get a sweet enhancement to a contract. It also makes the return of money after the construction look kind of fishy. Was there more going on here than an honest mistake? I'm not claiming there is, and I'm pretty sure that this is just as it appears...council members trusting the "wrong" opinion of the city staff. But, this is a question that couldn't even be posed if the council would have followed the law from the start.
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, July 11 2005 @ 06:44 AM MDT
If the DA's office cannot figure out how it can prosecute a violation of the law, perhaps it is time to either (a) get out of the the DA's office some of these people who seem to be incompetent and send them back to law school for a refresher course or (b) do away with the laws because they obviously serve no purpose and no one is willing to see that they are enforced and upheld.
Why is it that the law enforcement people see there was a problem yet insist on putting the onus of responsibility on the backs of the taxpaying public in the form of them having to file a civil lawsuit? Don't we already spend enough money through our taxes, which by the way, are supposed to be used to help pay for these laws to be enforced. This is not the way the system is supposed to work.
It may be time to file a formal grievance with the state atorney general's office and see if they have the balls to do the job that needs to be done.
Final thought: We will continue to see flagrant violations of things like Open Meetings Laws, laws related to competitive bidding being done by municipalities, etc., because the elected officials know they will get nothing more than a verbal dressing down at best for breaking the law. This is not the way to send a message. It's time to hold them accountable for their actions and if our DA won't do it perhaps he needs to be held accountable too by voting him out of office.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, July 11 2005 @ 07:35 AM MDT
Sorry to say, this is what happens when you "elect"
a weakling like Lennon to a post like DA. He was elected strickly due to name recognition. People knew the mommy and daddy or grandma, and therefore HE was the natural choice?
If this office is unwilling to do their job, the one of the people, (and I beleive it has more to do with not wanting to ruffle any potential BIG donors feathers) than we the people had better decide very quickly we deserve and demand more.
Watch for it, you will see that Mr Lennon will be running for a bigger office very soon, and can't afford to do the original job he was elected to. Not with that Judgeship in the wings?!!
Shame on you
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, July 11 2005 @ 08:52 AM MDT
I have heard too that Lennon is contemplating a judgeship in the future. We have to make sure that before he is elected to any higher office he does what he is supposed to do in the office he currently serves. We will remember his lackadaisical attitude come any future election.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, July 11 2005 @ 05:07 PM MDT
This entire thing is disgusting and the DAs office should be forced to explain why it, a law enforcement agency, is not seeing that the law is enforced. How about some answers DA Bill Lennon???
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, July 11 2005 @ 10:21 PM MDT
In fact, the District Attorney DOES have the ability to enforce this and other ethics violations. Does voting on a decision to give your golfing buddy a sweet, no bid contract violate any ethics? Especially when there are no plans drawn up and then after the fact, a bundle of dollars are given back (once the illegal no-bid was brought to light).
This whole thing stinks.
Where are the new council members who ran on the platform of "accountability"?? I urge one of them to have the guts to stand up and ask for the city to get an independent opinion and police themselves. Put measures in place so this type of thing will not happen again. I don't want to hear that this happend before I was on the council. This is something that should be addressed so that the taxpayers can have some confidence in the people running our community.
Also, where is the accountability when the news gets around that the city was about $3million over budget last year??
Beware council members...you are the ones that are left hanging by following poor advice from the professional staff.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 08:09 AM MDT
(this from Babblemur.com)
Oshkosh City Council breaks law,
no one seems to care
A second legal opinion has come out
determining that the "no-bid" contract to
build rest-rooms at the new Oshkosh
Amphitheater was in violation of state law.
In the second opinion it was determined
that a local council can override the bidding
laws with a 75% vote, which the Oshkosh
City Council did not do, voting 5-2 to give
the $675,000 contract to C J Meyer, Inc.
The state law is meant to protect tax
payers from cronyism and to ensure the
lowest price for tax payer funded work.
The DA's office has indicated that they
have no intention of prosecuting the case,
essentially stating "so what?"
See article in Oshkosh Northwestern.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 01:54 PM MDT
Assistant DA Mitch Metropulos is in error when he says the council could have voted to waive the bid with a 3/4 vote. This is the case ONLY when city workers are doing the work. DA Lennon basically disagrees with his ADA by saying, "One could legitimately argue the 3/4 vote is only required where the public construction in question is done directly by the city." Kind of scary when an Assistant DA can read a statute and not get it right.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 07:53 PM MDT
If Da Lennon GETS IT, then he should GET TO IT, and proscute the city officials for their wrong doing!
Enough of the blah, blah, blah...that wouldn't work if I told Mr DA that I won't break the law again sir, I promise...really. We all know if this was an ordinary citizen we'd be in the slammer by now. Held up as an example of tough justice in Winnebago County.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 08:16 AM MDT
An OPINION is not a LAW. It's pretty simple.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: admin on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 09:47 AM MDT
While an opinion by itself is not a law, it is an opinion ON the law. And they're given all the time. We now have TWO opinions from law enforcement agencies assigned to oversee and protect people from abuses and violations of the law which have said the city council broke the law. I guess the only thing that will make you people who don't want to accept these "opinions" happy is for the poor people of this community to sue the city and city council members when we're already paying through the nose for everything else.
Okay, so let's say some citizens get together and sue (maybe a class action lawsuit is in order here). Then what happens? A judge gives his ruling based on his interpretation of the law. Isn't that just another opinion? But would that make you council supporters happy and finally get you to agree that this bid-waiving was illegal?
While we're discussing opinions, consider this: When the state or federal Supreme Court make a ruling, the justices give their written opinions to back up why they ruled as they did. Yet they are certainly deciding which laws stand and which ones don't. Do those opinions count in your mind or not?
Why don't those of you who think what the city council did by waiving the bid process was right and legal, explain to us when the laws on competitive bidding should be allowed to rule and when they shouldn't? We've heard Warren Kraft's explanation, but with all due respect to Mr. Kraft, he sometimes wants to accept opinions from the AG's office and sometimes he doesn't. Perhaps you city council supporters could explain how an opinion is the law one time and not the next.
The bottom line here is you people want to spin things in any way you can to make what the council did seem right, when in fact, there was nothing right about it and the city probably should be sued over this. That is undoubtedly the only way the Warren Kraft, the council or its supporters are going to see the light of day on this issue.
Meanwhile, shame on the Winnebago County DA's office for not having the guts and wherewithall to do its job in this matter. They're supposed to be watching out for the people in Winnebago County, not watching out for their own political interests, which is how this seems. As long as we have DAs who are unwilling to do their job and hold elected officials accountable, especially when they should know better, we will continue to have elected officials breaking the law. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
- Cheryl Hentz
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Kay Springstroh on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 11:02 AM MDT
Cheryl,
I couldn't agree with you more. I'd like to add how disturbing I find the attitudes of the City Manager and the County DA. Perhaps their quotes were printed out of context, but they both seemed rather "put out" that a pesky tax-payer would question anything the city did.
I feel this whole act of awarding a no-bid contract to be a direct insult to local representative democracy. Clearly, some of these folks do not feel any need to represent their constituents, only their "golf buddies" (in Castle's case).
Sadly, this type of cronyism is running rampant in all levels of government to the entire country's detriment. From CR Meyer to Accenture to Haliburton; we need to stop it.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 02:00 PM MDT
Why aren't the contractors complaining about this? By sitting by idle, they are looking like they approve of this behavior. Have they ever heard of the Sherman Act??
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 02:58 PM MDT
GAWD, why doesn't who complain about what and how come X doesn't do something about Y and doesn't everything in Oshkosh just SUCK?????
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 03:26 PM MDT
This is about breaking the law and the arrogance of the people who broke the law.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 05:15 PM MDT
Obviously you are trying to make fun of people who think this illegal bidwaiving is bad business and a big deal. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, not for making fun of others but for having such a bankrupt sense of morals, decency, ethics and legality. Clearly you haven't got a clue what this issue is really all about and what the bigger issue is lurking below the surface. I am disgusted by having to share a city and county with the likes of you.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 07:36 PM MDT
VOTE! Joe Paulus for Winnebago County D.A.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 07:59 PM MDT
Thank you No, we have enough corruption now. It was due to the "who cares" attitude of so many including the local Northwestern that Mr Paulus was allowed to terrorize Winnebago County for 14 + years. You may find this issue, and so many others like it funny, you may feel that this is too negitive to discuss, but there is nothing funny about allowing our community to erode into further decay.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 09:04 PM MDT
Well said about the corruption and decay in this community. Get rid of the vermin!
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 13 2005 @ 06:33 AM MDT
Does anyone in this forum ever have anything good to say about anything? All I ever see is b*i*t*c*h b*i*t*c*h b*i*t*c*h. The bathroom fiasco, the streets, the council meetings, the chickens on the council, the pool, the lack of a pool, the railroad crossings, the mall, the neighborhoods. SOMEONE PLEASE HAVE SOMETHING NICE TO SAY ABOUT OSHKOSH! I get sick and tired of the constant complaining that goes on in this city, whether it be at citizen statements or in this forum. Tell us what you like about this city. Someone challenged another poster to this group to move out of town because s/he didn't see eye to eye on the pool issue. I say the same to all of you! You must hate this city with all of the complaining you do. Share something pleasant!
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 14 2005 @ 07:39 AM MDT
Usually people who make comments like this, are from a township that doesn't support programs in Oshkosh with THEIR tax dollars, however they seem to HAVE an Oshkosh address, and use the services.
I love Oshkosh most of all because of the spirit and fight the people in the community have. They come from a background of hardworking blue-collar people, that have an intimate knowledge of oppression, and poverty. They will continue to fight and speak up when things are not as they should be. They will not meekly lay down because someone else thinks they should, or want them to shut-up.
You may not like what we say...but you should be willing to defend our right to say it! Democracy isn't always pretty nor polite. So you may want to change the channel or get over it.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 14 2005 @ 07:51 AM MDT
I wrote the comment. I am a city resident and pay taxes just like you do. It's not that I am against anyone's ability to speak out, but have you noticed the overall negative tone to a majority of the posts?
You are certainly right-- you have the right to say what you want. But I make this challenge: if you're going to complain, also offer a suggestion on how the problem can be solved. We have too many already who sit by the wayside yet cast their criticisms on any of the issues presented in this forum. Don't be part of the problem. Be part of the solution.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 14 2005 @ 09:04 AM MDT
Solutions on how many of these problems can be solved have been offered - usually before the city council takes its action. In the case of the bandshell bthrooms they were urged to put it out for bids. But as usual, these people refuse to listen. Now they will hopefully get sued and be taught a lesson that way. Perhaps the only language they understand is that which is green and has numbers on it. So perhaps they should be hit in their wallets with fines, then tossed out on their ears.
Once again we get another opinion that says the council broke the law and we still get the same arrogant, condecending comments coming from city hall. Wow...what is it going to take for those people to admit that they didn't follow the proper procedures? Maybe a civil lawsuit naming them personally?? I doubt a petition for a declaratory judgement would even make these people admit their errors.
Something needs to be done to put these people on notice that this type of behavior will have consequences in the future.
Maybe this bathroom bidding incident was purely a poor opinion from the city attorney. BUT...the state statutes regarding the bidding of contracts were put into place to not only protect the citizens and their tax money, but also to protect the the council members from looking like they bent over to help a well connected contractor get a sweet enhancement to a contract. It also makes the return of money after the construction look kind of fishy. Was there more going on here than an honest mistake? I'm not claiming there is, and I'm pretty sure that this is just as it appears...council members trusting the "wrong" opinion of the city staff. But, this is a question that couldn't even be posed if the council would have followed the law from the start.
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, July 11 2005 @ 06:44 AM MDT
If the DA's office cannot figure out how it can prosecute a violation of the law, perhaps it is time to either (a) get out of the the DA's office some of these people who seem to be incompetent and send them back to law school for a refresher course or (b) do away with the laws because they obviously serve no purpose and no one is willing to see that they are enforced and upheld.
Why is it that the law enforcement people see there was a problem yet insist on putting the onus of responsibility on the backs of the taxpaying public in the form of them having to file a civil lawsuit? Don't we already spend enough money through our taxes, which by the way, are supposed to be used to help pay for these laws to be enforced. This is not the way the system is supposed to work.
It may be time to file a formal grievance with the state atorney general's office and see if they have the balls to do the job that needs to be done.
Final thought: We will continue to see flagrant violations of things like Open Meetings Laws, laws related to competitive bidding being done by municipalities, etc., because the elected officials know they will get nothing more than a verbal dressing down at best for breaking the law. This is not the way to send a message. It's time to hold them accountable for their actions and if our DA won't do it perhaps he needs to be held accountable too by voting him out of office.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, July 11 2005 @ 07:35 AM MDT
Sorry to say, this is what happens when you "elect"
a weakling like Lennon to a post like DA. He was elected strickly due to name recognition. People knew the mommy and daddy or grandma, and therefore HE was the natural choice?
If this office is unwilling to do their job, the one of the people, (and I beleive it has more to do with not wanting to ruffle any potential BIG donors feathers) than we the people had better decide very quickly we deserve and demand more.
Watch for it, you will see that Mr Lennon will be running for a bigger office very soon, and can't afford to do the original job he was elected to. Not with that Judgeship in the wings?!!
Shame on you
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, July 11 2005 @ 08:52 AM MDT
I have heard too that Lennon is contemplating a judgeship in the future. We have to make sure that before he is elected to any higher office he does what he is supposed to do in the office he currently serves. We will remember his lackadaisical attitude come any future election.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, July 11 2005 @ 05:07 PM MDT
This entire thing is disgusting and the DAs office should be forced to explain why it, a law enforcement agency, is not seeing that the law is enforced. How about some answers DA Bill Lennon???
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, July 11 2005 @ 10:21 PM MDT
In fact, the District Attorney DOES have the ability to enforce this and other ethics violations. Does voting on a decision to give your golfing buddy a sweet, no bid contract violate any ethics? Especially when there are no plans drawn up and then after the fact, a bundle of dollars are given back (once the illegal no-bid was brought to light).
This whole thing stinks.
Where are the new council members who ran on the platform of "accountability"?? I urge one of them to have the guts to stand up and ask for the city to get an independent opinion and police themselves. Put measures in place so this type of thing will not happen again. I don't want to hear that this happend before I was on the council. This is something that should be addressed so that the taxpayers can have some confidence in the people running our community.
Also, where is the accountability when the news gets around that the city was about $3million over budget last year??
Beware council members...you are the ones that are left hanging by following poor advice from the professional staff.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 08:09 AM MDT
(this from Babblemur.com)
Oshkosh City Council breaks law,
no one seems to care
A second legal opinion has come out
determining that the "no-bid" contract to
build rest-rooms at the new Oshkosh
Amphitheater was in violation of state law.
In the second opinion it was determined
that a local council can override the bidding
laws with a 75% vote, which the Oshkosh
City Council did not do, voting 5-2 to give
the $675,000 contract to C J Meyer, Inc.
The state law is meant to protect tax
payers from cronyism and to ensure the
lowest price for tax payer funded work.
The DA's office has indicated that they
have no intention of prosecuting the case,
essentially stating "so what?"
See article in Oshkosh Northwestern.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 01:54 PM MDT
Assistant DA Mitch Metropulos is in error when he says the council could have voted to waive the bid with a 3/4 vote. This is the case ONLY when city workers are doing the work. DA Lennon basically disagrees with his ADA by saying, "One could legitimately argue the 3/4 vote is only required where the public construction in question is done directly by the city." Kind of scary when an Assistant DA can read a statute and not get it right.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 07:53 PM MDT
If Da Lennon GETS IT, then he should GET TO IT, and proscute the city officials for their wrong doing!
Enough of the blah, blah, blah...that wouldn't work if I told Mr DA that I won't break the law again sir, I promise...really. We all know if this was an ordinary citizen we'd be in the slammer by now. Held up as an example of tough justice in Winnebago County.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 08:16 AM MDT
An OPINION is not a LAW. It's pretty simple.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: admin on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 09:47 AM MDT
While an opinion by itself is not a law, it is an opinion ON the law. And they're given all the time. We now have TWO opinions from law enforcement agencies assigned to oversee and protect people from abuses and violations of the law which have said the city council broke the law. I guess the only thing that will make you people who don't want to accept these "opinions" happy is for the poor people of this community to sue the city and city council members when we're already paying through the nose for everything else.
Okay, so let's say some citizens get together and sue (maybe a class action lawsuit is in order here). Then what happens? A judge gives his ruling based on his interpretation of the law. Isn't that just another opinion? But would that make you council supporters happy and finally get you to agree that this bid-waiving was illegal?
While we're discussing opinions, consider this: When the state or federal Supreme Court make a ruling, the justices give their written opinions to back up why they ruled as they did. Yet they are certainly deciding which laws stand and which ones don't. Do those opinions count in your mind or not?
Why don't those of you who think what the city council did by waiving the bid process was right and legal, explain to us when the laws on competitive bidding should be allowed to rule and when they shouldn't? We've heard Warren Kraft's explanation, but with all due respect to Mr. Kraft, he sometimes wants to accept opinions from the AG's office and sometimes he doesn't. Perhaps you city council supporters could explain how an opinion is the law one time and not the next.
The bottom line here is you people want to spin things in any way you can to make what the council did seem right, when in fact, there was nothing right about it and the city probably should be sued over this. That is undoubtedly the only way the Warren Kraft, the council or its supporters are going to see the light of day on this issue.
Meanwhile, shame on the Winnebago County DA's office for not having the guts and wherewithall to do its job in this matter. They're supposed to be watching out for the people in Winnebago County, not watching out for their own political interests, which is how this seems. As long as we have DAs who are unwilling to do their job and hold elected officials accountable, especially when they should know better, we will continue to have elected officials breaking the law. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
- Cheryl Hentz
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Kay Springstroh on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 11:02 AM MDT
Cheryl,
I couldn't agree with you more. I'd like to add how disturbing I find the attitudes of the City Manager and the County DA. Perhaps their quotes were printed out of context, but they both seemed rather "put out" that a pesky tax-payer would question anything the city did.
I feel this whole act of awarding a no-bid contract to be a direct insult to local representative democracy. Clearly, some of these folks do not feel any need to represent their constituents, only their "golf buddies" (in Castle's case).
Sadly, this type of cronyism is running rampant in all levels of government to the entire country's detriment. From CR Meyer to Accenture to Haliburton; we need to stop it.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 02:00 PM MDT
Why aren't the contractors complaining about this? By sitting by idle, they are looking like they approve of this behavior. Have they ever heard of the Sherman Act??
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 02:58 PM MDT
GAWD, why doesn't who complain about what and how come X doesn't do something about Y and doesn't everything in Oshkosh just SUCK?????
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 03:26 PM MDT
This is about breaking the law and the arrogance of the people who broke the law.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 05:15 PM MDT
Obviously you are trying to make fun of people who think this illegal bidwaiving is bad business and a big deal. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, not for making fun of others but for having such a bankrupt sense of morals, decency, ethics and legality. Clearly you haven't got a clue what this issue is really all about and what the bigger issue is lurking below the surface. I am disgusted by having to share a city and county with the likes of you.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 07:36 PM MDT
VOTE! Joe Paulus for Winnebago County D.A.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 07:59 PM MDT
Thank you No, we have enough corruption now. It was due to the "who cares" attitude of so many including the local Northwestern that Mr Paulus was allowed to terrorize Winnebago County for 14 + years. You may find this issue, and so many others like it funny, you may feel that this is too negitive to discuss, but there is nothing funny about allowing our community to erode into further decay.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 09:04 PM MDT
Well said about the corruption and decay in this community. Get rid of the vermin!
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 13 2005 @ 06:33 AM MDT
Does anyone in this forum ever have anything good to say about anything? All I ever see is b*i*t*c*h b*i*t*c*h b*i*t*c*h. The bathroom fiasco, the streets, the council meetings, the chickens on the council, the pool, the lack of a pool, the railroad crossings, the mall, the neighborhoods. SOMEONE PLEASE HAVE SOMETHING NICE TO SAY ABOUT OSHKOSH! I get sick and tired of the constant complaining that goes on in this city, whether it be at citizen statements or in this forum. Tell us what you like about this city. Someone challenged another poster to this group to move out of town because s/he didn't see eye to eye on the pool issue. I say the same to all of you! You must hate this city with all of the complaining you do. Share something pleasant!
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 14 2005 @ 07:39 AM MDT
Usually people who make comments like this, are from a township that doesn't support programs in Oshkosh with THEIR tax dollars, however they seem to HAVE an Oshkosh address, and use the services.
I love Oshkosh most of all because of the spirit and fight the people in the community have. They come from a background of hardworking blue-collar people, that have an intimate knowledge of oppression, and poverty. They will continue to fight and speak up when things are not as they should be. They will not meekly lay down because someone else thinks they should, or want them to shut-up.
You may not like what we say...but you should be willing to defend our right to say it! Democracy isn't always pretty nor polite. So you may want to change the channel or get over it.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 14 2005 @ 07:51 AM MDT
I wrote the comment. I am a city resident and pay taxes just like you do. It's not that I am against anyone's ability to speak out, but have you noticed the overall negative tone to a majority of the posts?
You are certainly right-- you have the right to say what you want. But I make this challenge: if you're going to complain, also offer a suggestion on how the problem can be solved. We have too many already who sit by the wayside yet cast their criticisms on any of the issues presented in this forum. Don't be part of the problem. Be part of the solution.
Amphitheater Bathrooms
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 14 2005 @ 09:04 AM MDT
Solutions on how many of these problems can be solved have been offered - usually before the city council takes its action. In the case of the bandshell bthrooms they were urged to put it out for bids. But as usual, these people refuse to listen. Now they will hopefully get sued and be taught a lesson that way. Perhaps the only language they understand is that which is green and has numbers on it. So perhaps they should be hit in their wallets with fines, then tossed out on their ears.
posted by Cheryl Hentz at 3:15 PM
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