Local Labor Endorsements Announced

The Winnebago County Labor Council, the local AFL-CIO chapter, held its annual candidate forum on Thursday, February 23rd for the purpose of endorsing individuals running for local offices.

The following candidates were endorsed by the WCLC:
City Council: Mark Madison
Oshkosh School Board: Dennis Kavanaugh, Lee Wilson and Amy Weinsheim.
Winnebago County Board District 17: Jef Hall

The forum questions included individual positions on the Tax Payers Bill of Rights (TABOR), tax incentive accountability and economic development, new ideas for attracting and maintaining good paying jobs, the right to organize, shared revenue reductions, privatization, gender equity, and prevailing wage laws.

Candidates in attendance included: Burk Tower, Amy Weinsheim, Wayne Traska, Kent Monte, Dennis Kavanaugh, Brian Poeschl, and Mark Madison. Michelle Monte and Jef Hall requested and submitted questionnaires for consideration, while Paul Esslinger and Dan Becker respectfully declined the invitation to attend.

Council President Stephen Dedow stated that "All the candidates in attendance gave thoughtful, honest and considerate answers to our questions. I believe that the intentionally loose format of the forum created an atmosphere of openness which allowed all those who participated to exchange ideas freely. Most of the candidates had similar view points such as the nearly unanimous opposition to TABOR. The individuals we ended up endorsing simply were closer philosophically to our overall position as organized labor and as such would represent our concerns effectively."

The current endorsements follow earlier recommendations in support of Peg Lautenschlager for Attorney General and Karen Siefert for Judge in Branch 4.

[following are comments as they were received in response to this post on an earlier version of Eye on Oshkosh]

"The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say."
Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 24 2006 @ 02:51 PM MST
Looks like the tax and spenders got the nod. No surprise there.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 24 2006 @ 04:51 PM MST
Yeah, No kidding. Labor backing progressive candidates. That's not surprising at all.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 24 2006 @ 08:49 PM MST
I don't see any endorsements from legitimate "non-labor" groups. Organize one. We'll be interested to see who you support.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 24 2006 @ 09:03 PM MST
What is your definition of "legitimate non labor groups?"

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 24 2006 @ 09:05 PM MST
Opposed to TABOR...big surprise. Why would they want to cut off their entitlement?

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 05:34 PM MST
Paul Esslinger, supporter of unions but too much of a snob to attend a forum sponsored by one?

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 08:20 PM MST
Mr Esslinger wanted "all the members" to be in attendance for the endorsement process. Sorry Paul, Titan Stadium wasn't available on Thursday night to fit all those folks in, and it was a little cold to be outside. Besides, that's not the way it works. The Labor Council consists of elected representatives of unions both in and outside of the AFL-CIO. Every member union of the Labor Council was invited to participate in the endorsement process. It is each unions responsibility to attend. If they don't, and aren't happy with the endorsement, so be it......Several representatives of the unions representing city employees were at the meeting on Thursday. Hmmmm....interesting that they participated in the lone endorsement of Mark Madison. Those are the unions that have the most at stake in the city elections. I might add that Mark Madison is the sole endorsement for their union's PAC also.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 09:51 PM MST
Don't be fooled by this poor excuse for a public servant. Mr Esslinger only wanted to grandstand once again. That has become his middle name and the longer this character is in elective office the louder that name gets screamed. Give the crybaby a rattle, busy box, and a good swift kick out of city hall.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 26 2006 @ 01:37 AM MST
Esslinger is too good to go to the forum sponsored by the union but he went to an event sponsored by Propel in 10/04. Check this out."Confirmed Special Guests:State Rep. Gregg Underheim, 54th Assembly DistrictState Sen. Carol Roessler, 18th Senate DistrictSteve Dedow, Candidate for the 53rd State Assembly DistrictLuAnn Bird, Candidate for the 53rd State Assembly DistrictRichard Spanbauer, Candidate for the 53rd State Assembly DistrictGordon Hintz, Candidate for the 54th State Assembly DistrictTony Palmeri, Candidate for the 54th State Assembly DistrictDan Carpenter, Candidate for the 54th State Assembly DistrictMark Harris, Oshkosh MayorFrank Tower, Oshkosh Deputy MayorShirley Mattox, Oshkosh Common Council memberPaul Esslinger, Oshkosh Common Council memberBrian Poeschl, Oshkosh Common Council memberBurk Tower, Oshkosh Common Council member"Esslinger must think it's okay to associate with certain groups and certain people, even though he has publicly dissed them. Others better not do that though or you'll be called names by Esslinger and his friends. How screwed up can one person's principles get? There is no good reason for him to have shunned these union leaders. Jef Hall is wrong when he says Esslinger is a racist and a sexist. Esslinger is just another elected official whose gotten too big for his britches.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 26 2006 @ 07:46 AM MST
I don't care what propel said, he wasn't at their event. He also didn't say that all of the members of the unions should be "in attendance," he said the questions and answers should be provided to them so they can make up their own mind on who to endorse.Please be smart enough to read other posts before opening your mouth and making yourself look dumber than you are!And Mr. Esslinger, cudos to you for not attending the union meeting. I wouldn't want to be supported by a group that supports Jef Hall or Mark Madison. They are the "wrong votes" for Oshkosh. Keep fighting for the "average Joe," something Mark Madison or Jef Hall wouldn't have a clue how to do.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 26 2006 @ 08:10 AM MST
A previous post DID say that Esslinger wanted all members to be in attendance. Some of us know how to read but we'll excuse you from that group.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 26 2006 @ 12:30 PM MST
Some questions for the person who wrote this about Paul Ellsinger: “I don't care what propel said, he wasn't at their event. He also didn't say that all of the members of the unions should be "in attendance," he said the questions and answers should be provided to them so they can make up their own mind on who to endorse.”How do you know he wasn’t at their event? Were you there from start to finish? Or did Mr. Ellsinger tell you he wasn't there? Or are you Paul disguising yourself as Anonymous? You also seem very certain of what he said to the labor union. How do you know what he said? You would either have to be Paul, been told something by Paul or be a member of the endorsement committee. We can rule out that one seeings as though it would be odd for them to jump to Ellsinger's defense after he gave them the brush off. That leaves the other two options. Now who looks dumber than they are?

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 26 2006 @ 01:06 PM MST
I think you've been reading too many conspiracy theory books lately!Oh, and by the way, it's Esslinger not Ellsinger. My God, you can't get the story straight, but I would expect you to at least get the name correct!

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 26 2006 @ 01:15 PM MST
No conspiracy. Just good old fashioned common sense. You know, the kind Paul EsSLINGER and his possee always preaches about. Some anonymous busybee out there also should know it's Jef, not Jeff.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 26 2006 @ 03:00 PM MST
Where is there a conspiracy theory. Guesstimates were made but you were asked some simple questions about your source of knowledge. Maybe they were a wee bit tough for you but if you're going to speak with authority you have to show you deserve to be believed. The questions weren't answered directly, but it really is not necessary. The point has been made.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 27 2006 @ 07:13 AM MST
You would think Paul Esslinger would have all the time in the world to attend any and all meetings that might earn an endorsement for him. He is unemployed now, you know.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 27 2006 @ 08:05 AM MST
He is?

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 27 2006 @ 09:46 AM MST
You would certainly think so...Maybe the next time Mr. Esslinger goes on Eye on Oshkosh Cheryl and Tony could ask him if that cribbage tournament on the 18th of Feb. was really more important than being at the special meeting to set the city manager's 2006 goals...People always complain about the city manager so you'd think Esslinger would have thought this important...He was the only council member not present but I bet they all had other things to do that day...Where are Esslinger's priorities and commitment to the people...He is disappointing.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 27 2006 @ 11:29 AM MST
Yes, Paul Esslinger lost his job with Charter Communications. He is unemployed.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 27 2006 @ 01:23 PM MST
If he became a professional cribbage player Paul could solve his unemployment problem and have a good reason not to attend important city meetings.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 27 2006 @ 03:53 PM MST
A cribbage tournament!! That's lame. If anyone's keeping tally he blew off 2 executive sessions on the 14th, then shirked his responsibility to us on the 18th, and stiffed the labor unions on the 23rd. What's next? Add that to the water park and garbage fees and we've got the makings of a real politician.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 27 2006 @ 07:33 PM MST
What in the world is Paul Esslinger thinking? This is a lousy reason for not making this meeting.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 27 2006 @ 08:11 PM MST
Maybe he was thinking about the grand prize in the cribbage tourney instead of the prize he already has. A coveted seat on the common council.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 27 2006 @ 12:50 PM MST
Paul actually went to a cribbage tournament instead of such an important meeting? A real man of the people would have done just the opposite.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 27 2006 @ 10:18 PM MST
I see others have already weighed in on this so at the risk of sounding redundant I will say I think the choice Mr. Esslinger made was a poor one. The city manager's job is so vital to the entire framework known as city hall and the City of Oshkosh. The council has said it wants to set tough goals for the city manager because the people wnat him to be more accountable. But the first thing that happens is the senior member of the council is not there for the handoff. I am shaking my head in bewilderment right now.

Cribbage Patch Paul
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 03:22 PM MST
Why is Paul "public servant 101" so quiet? Guess the subject material swirling around about him is true or he'd be screaming bloody murder. A confidentiality agreement with Diog and now a cribbage tournament over planning city manager goals. Who knows. Someday Five Rivers might even host a cribbage convention in its big convention center?

Cribbage Patch Paul
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 03:48 PM MST
Well there really is no justification for attending the cribbage tournament, so I guess that's why we haven't heard from him!

Cribbage Patch Paul
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 04:55 PM MST
Esslinger has had a fairly good reputation until the last year or so. Since he lost his bid for mayor he has become *censored*y as hell which doesn't make any sense. Even come of his votes are in conflict with each other. If the stress is getting to him we could help with that.

Cribbage Patch Paul
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 07:37 PM MST
Maybe Paul is waiting for his turn on Eye on Oshkosh with the other candidates to tell his side.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 27 2006 @ 10:37 PM MST
Over on the Oshkosh News blog a week or so ago Melanie Bloechl said: "Those of us that have actually worked in this arena, understand that the Council should be giving direction to the City MANAGER, (hence the name manager)unfortunately this is not the case, and will not be until the good people of Oshkosh wake up and realize that the Council is not doing it's job." Later on in that same posting she said: "Dick has done a respectable job, considering that lack of leadership his bosses have shown."Earlier today we learned that her close friend Paul Esslinger chose to attend a cribbage tournament a couple weeks ago instead of attending a special city council meeting where goals were discussed and set for the city manager for this year. It is unfortunate that her friend Mr. Esslinger was the only council member not there to help develop that direction she complains the city manager needs.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 28 2006 @ 06:13 AM MST
It would be nice to hear from Paul and Melanie on this issue. Do they boycott this site now?

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 28 2006 @ 06:58 AM MST
Who cares? We seem to carry on discussion without them. (They're probably lurking around though. It would be hard to imagine their egos allowing them to stay away.)

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 28 2006 @ 07:21 AM MST
It is always nice to get both sides of a story.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 28 2006 @ 07:48 AM MST
So, is the council now a "job" which members have to attend Saturday meetings? Sounds like the council needs to get back to the basics and conduct meetings during the work week as weekends are personal time. And we wonder why people don't run, except those with an empty nest or are empty upstairs. You have a few young people on the council with no children or ask others to raise their children so frankly, I too would draw the line. It will be interesting to see who wins seats in the upcoming election. If Jeff Hall wins a county board seat, we know the public is forgiving of a drunken frat boy entering a home illegally!

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 28 2006 @ 08:06 AM MST
That was the mission Esslinger signed up for. The council doesn't have weekend meetings that often, but this was a biggie. If he is unwilling to do the job, why is he running? Wanting free time is no excuse whatsoever to miss a meeting of this importance. It might interest you and others to know that the Saturday meeting he blew off had been postponed from 2/14 because of the late hour. But Essligner wouldn't have been at that one either because he drove his rear end home after the regular council meeting and before the executive session on Five Rivers. Either way he shirked his responsibility on city manager goal setting and shirked his duties to the people of Oshkosh.Your attitude is one that promulgates the very kind of behavior Esslinger has displayed and encourages such irresponsibility in the future. It is as disgusting as your attack on Mr. Hall.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: admin on Tuesday, February 28 2006 @ 09:19 AM MST
A post was just removed from this discussion because the anonymous person made a few wrongful accusations about me and inaccurately stated that Meredith Scheuermann was not at the Saturday meeting being discussed either. One would have to wonder how they would know whether Mrs. Scheuerman was in attendance or not, unless they were on the city council or among a select few city employees or others who would have gotten the attendance sheet. Be that as it may, this is just another case of someone wanting to deflect from the real issue being discussed by putting the blame and spotlight on someone else. In doing so they have lied and misstated the facts. Here are the facts about the meeting in question. In contacting the city clerk's office to obtain attendance information for that day I was told that all city council members were in attendance, except for Paul Esslinger. Meredith Scheuermann was there but arrived a few minutes late, the clerk's office just told me.Anyone in doubt about about the truthfulness or accuracy of this may call to verify it for themselves. Or you can request a copy of the attendance sheet yourself from them.If people want to post things, anonymously or otherwise, please make sure you (a) do not slander or lie about others, and (b) make sure you have your own facts straight. Otherwise your post will be deleted in its entirety.
- Cheryl Hentz

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 28 2006 @ 09:08 PM MST
I looked into this and found out that Paul Esslinger was the only city council member not at that special meeting. Just like Cheryl said. Mr. Esslinger's decision bothers me. It does not seem like him nor does it seem like a very reasoned choice. Unless he had a good reason I will have to rethink my vote. I only wish this had come out before last week's balloting.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 12:58 PM MST
Just in case anyone doubts Cheryl and would accuse her of some sort of personal bias. My husband has a copy of the minutes form the Saturday in question. It was in his city council packet and is available to anyone who wishes to see it. Paul was absent, Merideth was late. Those are the facts of the meeting. I rarely talk to Paul, so I don't know why he didn't go. Personally, I think Saturday meetings are ridiculous unless it is an emergency of some sort. I would wonder why the meeting couldn't be held during the week and what Paul's reason for cribbage being more important. Was there some arrangement between Paul and the other council members? Was the meeting optional? I'm not defending anyone, just confirming some things and questioning others.
Michelle Monte

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 02:04 PM MST
Aren't all meetings optional for council members?

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 03:13 PM MST
They're paid a salary so they really ought to be there when there's a meeting unless they have a good reason. Playing cribbage is not such a reason, especially when the relative importance of it is weighed against that of city manager goals and direction.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 05:53 PM MST
I understand he should have been there. My point is they are not manditory. No such thing. He seems to have lost his way. It is time to vote him out.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 06:53 PM MST
Agreed. His perspective is gone.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 28 2006 @ 11:55 AM MST
Paul wasn't with his children he was at a cribbage tornament.

Local Labor Endorsements Announced
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 28 2006 @ 07:55 AM MST
Mrs. Bloechl isn't on the council any more and doesn't have a side to tell. It's not her place to defend her protege. We do deserve to hear Mr. Esslinger's explanation, though it's hard to imagine how anyone might think it was responsible. Mrs. Bloechl could tell us what she thinks about Esslinger's decision seeings as how she thinks the council needs to give the city manager some real direction for a change. That must be new from when she served.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws

Contributed by: Anonymous Oshkosh Common Council candidate Mark Madison has a web site up and running (www.markmadison.org). He's also handing out postcards discussing his candidacy. On the surface these things seem completely appropriate. The problem is what's below the surface.

On his postcards/mailers, there is no "Authorized and Paid for by" disclaimer. That is a violation of state election law the way I understand it to be. On his web site he has a disclaimer reading "AABFB Madison for Council, Stephen Hintz Treasurer." I'm not sure what those initials stand for. If they are supposed to mean "Authorized and Paid for By" it should read AAPFB. But even that seems like it would be in violation of state law. The statutes read that initials may not be used.

When candidates run for office, they are given materials explaining what the election laws and campaign rules are. Maybe Madison didn't get his, but since he's run for office a few times previously and with Stephen Hintz for a treasurer, you'd think he'd have a handle on things.

Seems like we have one more campaign problem for our district attorney to investigate. Anyone up for filing another complaint against Mr. Madison's campaign missteps?

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 24 2006 @ 07:26 PM MST
He has to have spent more than $25 for the requirments to kick in.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 24 2006 @ 07:28 PM MST
Are you saying websites need that disclaimer?

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 24 2006 @ 07:38 PM MST
I don't believe that is the case because even "in-kind" donations must be reported. But even if you are right, there is still the matter of the abbreviations which are wrong, number one and abbreviated, number two. Naughty Mark. He can never seem to get anything right.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 24 2006 @ 08:09 PM MST
Yes in-kind contributions valued at over $25.
You better string up Mr. Monte too because his website has NO disclaimer either.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 24 2006 @ 08:12 PM MST
Better check your own facts. By the way, a blog site like Mr. Monte's is free so there is no cost involved. A web site like Mr. Madison's costs for the domain name registration and hosting fees. See the difference. I think ya do.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 26 2006 @ 06:58 PM MST
Well, according to Mr. Monte's BLOG he has a website too...

This comes directly from Mr. Monte's Blog:

[I have started a campaign website with some background and platform stuff.
http://www.geocities.com/montekvma/monte_for_council.html

Feel free to visit and post any comments, suggestions or complaints here.

Thanks for your support and I hope to see you on Election Day!!

Kent Monte
posted by Kent Monte at 7:37 PM 0 comments]

SO why don't you check your facts? There is no disclaimer on his WEBSITE either.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 26 2006 @ 07:31 PM MST
Neither his web site or blog site require payment. Both are free. Nice try. Check your own facts.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 26 2006 @ 10:33 PM MST
So how much did Mr. Madison's website cost?

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 26 2006 @ 11:32 PM MST
Gee whiz I don't know but he must have found out he needed to fix it because it is changed.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 24 2006 @ 08:24 PM MST
Let us be very clear about something. Mark Madison's web site has a disclaimer but it is abbreviated and has the wrong letters at that. This is in violation of state law. Some of his other materials lack a disclaimer. It might behoove you to actually read what is written and you would not end up with egg on your face.

In the case of Kent Monte, a previous poster summed it up by saying there is no money expended on a blog site like his. They are free for the offering to anyone who signs up for one. So it is exempt from the rules.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 08:50 AM MST
yes, it is a minor infraction, I guarantee that the DA and the State
Ellections board would let it slide because it is so minor. So please quit
trying to make apples out of bananas. By the way, A DA that is up for
an election that he is already behind in, most would likely leave case
alome otherwise he may as well be commiting political suicide.. Though
that is his job, he still has latitude to the extent of what validates an
investigation and how far to go with it. I truly do not feel that Mark
Madison should be considered a criminal because someone put the wrong
letter in an abbreviation.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 10:54 AM MST
You are wrong. Despite his running for office, Lennon still has the responsibility of doing the job he now holds. When a complaint has been filed he must investigate. His discretion comes into play as to the punishment should the complaint be found to be valid. I think we can see how wrong you are by the investigation already underway over the WEAC phone message and lack of disclaimer there. How much do you think it would help Lennon's campaign for the media and public to start talking about how he is ignoring complaints? That, on top of several already botched cases and mishandlings, would doom the campaign more than it already is. But a complaint has to be filed first and we don't know that anyone has or will be doing that. You are right that Mark Madison may not be a criminal but that doesn't give him license to break the laws with no penalties. Everyone else follows them and so should he. But maybe you're one of those people who think laws are not there for city councils, council candidates or lobbying groups.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 11:59 AM MST
There are more important things for Lennon to be investigating than a
missplaced letter that is what Im getting to. Should Lennon be
investigating the WEAC ad? YES. There nothing to investigate with
Madison. I do not think that Madison would deliberately change letters!!!!!
But wait maybe MAdison , in a wierd, conspiratorial and mananical way
knew this would drive at least one person mad, to the point that person go
nuts and files a complaint with DA Lennon. What a Nasty Plan!!!!

You are trying to get too much out a little thing. There is nothing corrupt
about a misplaced letter. think what you want to think. You already have
your mind made up the second Madison decided to run. Now you are
struggling to find buttons to push.

How about how Madison is being pushed as pro-corporate progressive,
which incidentally do not go hand in hand. Fighting Bob LaFollette,
Wisconsin true progressive, Fought corporations and won. Madison is no
where near a progressive or even Bob LaFolllette for that matter.

Let's quit nitpicking and talk about issues that represent every taxpayer in
Oshkosh.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 12:15 PM MST
It isn't the letters nimrod. You cannot ABBREVIATE!!! The state elections statutes AND the info candidates get clearly states you must spell out "PAID FOR BY." Instead of blowing things off because your golden boy is under attack, look up the law. Besides breaking it, HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER. HE HAS RUN BEFORE, SO HAS HIS CAMPAIGN TREASURER. HE HAS NO EXCUSE, except stupidity.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 12:25 PM MST
MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING - ALL I CAN SAY ABOUT THIS.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 01:39 PM MST
Breaking the law is breaking the law. There is no middle ground. If you speed, you get a ticket. If you run a red light, you get a ticket. You drink and drive, you may go to jail. For every LAW that you break, you will be punished when you are caught. Your golden boy is caught and you are blowing it off. Big shock. If he would have done a little research, he would have and should have known better.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 01:57 PM MST
Since you are so quick to nail him on this, could you suggest a penalty?

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 02:28 PM MST
Those who make the laws also set the penalties. Check with the election laws on line or contact your state lawmakers.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 02:42 PM MST
Lets wait and see if he will explain this to the taxpayers and then make up your mind when you go to the poles in April. I bet he will say this is an oversight on his part and if it is, he is not a good canidate for common council because what alse will be an oversight on his part when he will be responsble for millions of dollars of taxpayers money.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: admin on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 04:01 PM MST
I sent Mark Madison an email yesterday afternoon letting him know this information was out here and asked him if he'd like to look into it and comment on it. To date I have not received a reply from him nor has he apparently responded here. I have been asked to address this with him when he appears on the show in March. If questions about this remain at that time and he has not addressed them, we will pose the question then.

- Cheryl Hentz

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 03:23 PM MST
Since we are on the subject of campaign law violations. I would like to know how it is that the Winnebago County Republican Party can get away with having local businesses advertise in their monthly newsletter? I believe that businesses can not, under any circumstance, supply financial support to candidates or political parties unless they have a registered Political Action Committee. How are the local Republicans able to do this and not be in violation of the law?

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 09:49 PM MST
The Republicans capable of breaking the campaign finance laws? Surely you jest.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 09:55 PM MST
I believe one of the candidates for county board advertises in the Winnebago County Party newsletter.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 02:26 PM MST
Madison's campaign is much ado about nothing. Meanwhile the law is the law.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 05:01 PM MST
I never said it wasnt breaking the code! For the record this "nimrod" is
not supporting Mark Madison but is a realist when it comes down which
battles are worth fighting. this one is not worth fighting. For years,
Many Candidates have used the abbreviation. Instead of sticking to what
the law is, why dont you seek the state Election Board opinion. For the
record, they have more say on this than the DA. They know the election
laws better than any attorney in the state. They will most likely say that
they would prefer candidates to write it but would be satisfied with the
abbreviated form.

Take that anonymous punk!

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 05:28 PM MST
Why seek the election boards opinion. the law is clear. let me make sure i understand your point here. jjust becuase one thing seems less worth fighting than something else or because it is not as serious as something else, we shouldn't expect people to follow the rules and have something done about it when they don't? great concept which then only encourages more things to not be followed in the future. bigger problems always start somewhere.

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 07:09 PM MST
So here is a concept punk,
If you care so much about this, Go after all of the candidates, find their
literature, make examples of all of them. then next year show yourself as
a candidate then lead by example. Lead them them to the righteous path.
Make this your crusade. Do not sit here and *censored* about it, do something.
You do not need our support to bring legal precedent, you just need a lot
of money.

now all I am saying is that the SEB has known about the practice for
decades and has done nothing about. So maybe its about time you
become MUCKRAKER OF OSHKOSH! Maybe we can make that an elected
position.

"nimrod"

Is Mark Madison in Violation of State Election Laws?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 07:16 PM MST
There are plenty of candidates out there who are leading by example. Most of them follow the election laws. That you can't see the problem with those who don't is a shining example of perhaps an even larger problem.

Five Rivers info owed to taxpayers.citizens

Earlier this evening I was told that certain council candidates who have spoken with Five Rivers developer Tom Doig about his proposed project, are "sitting on" information Mr. Doig shared with them, saying they can't share it with people in the general public because they promised Mr. Doig it would remain confidential. If this is, in fact, true, then it is a big concern to me and I think it should be to every taxpayer in Oshkosh.

We are talking about millions of dollars in taxpayer money and these council candidates who want our votes, by promising confidentiality, seem to be saying to us by their silence that they feel more of an allegiance to a possible developer who is asking for a handout than to the people they say they want to serve and protect the tax dollars for. These are also some of the same people who felt that the closed session meeting of Feb. 14 should have been done in the open. There seems to be a disconnect there. They are either willing to put the taxpayers first or they're not.

I was also told by one council candidate that Tom Doig did not ask for the recent closed session meeting; that, instead, it was community development director Jackson Kinney who pushed for it. This is both troublesome and problematic. It's also a little unbelievable.

But this is not the first time I have heard of Jackson Kinney trying to stop Tom Doig from making information public. Mr. Doig himself told me he had wanted to put certain information out there for the public but that Jackson Kinney stifled it. I asked Bryan Bain, Frank Tower and Burk Tower about this at the last Fifth Tuesday Forum and not one of them was able to answer my question. They said they'd find out though. I hope to hear the answer soon.

I also have a hard time believing that Mr. Doig so desperately wants a public forum on his project. If that is true, why is he "swearing" certain existing council members and candidates to secrecy - even having at least one councilor (Paul Esslinger) sign a confidentiality agreement, which under state statutes he can't require of sitting council members, I'm told. But if Mr. Doig truly does want a public meeting and Mr. Kinney is resisting, there is a simple enough fix. Mr. Doig simply needs to tell Jackson Kinney that the meetings are going to be held in public and with Q & A sessions being shared with the public or he is taking his multi-million dollar dream development elsewhere. This is not that complicated. In some ways it makes one wonder (but then again, not really) who's in the driver's seat here. Let's not forget it was Mr. Kinney who offered TIF money to Mr. Doig - Doig told me himself that he did not initiate the discussion about it.

We also learned at the Fifth Tuesday Forum that Mr. Kinney is speaking to banks for developer Doig. Why? Exactly whose payroll is Jackson Kinney on and why is he speaking to bankers for a developer instead of the developer talking to banks himself?

Council candidate Kent Monte has said on his blog that he spoke with Tom Doig. That conversation has taken place since Doig missed the January financing deadline and since this month's closed session meeting. Did Mr. Doig share with Mr. Monte or perhaps the council itself in the infamous closed session meeting why his financing is not in order after months and months of tying up our staff and working on this? Has he explained to anyone why he is so opposed to the "pay as you go" option? I can venture an educated guess and the two are probably tied very closely together: I bet it's because his potential financiers are not going to go for the "pay as you go" option. They'd rather have all the risk on the city and its taxpayers. That risk can be avoided or at least greatly reduced with the "pay as you go" option rather than "direct pay." To do anything less than "pay as you go" is dangerous and the council that votes on this project would be well-advised to not do it. Jackson Kinney himself recommended the "pay as you go" option in the early stages of term sheet options being presented. But it would not surprise me if (a) this is part of the reason financing seems to be somewhat of a stumbling block for Doig and his partners, and (b) we eventually see Mr. Kinney change his tune and recommend that the council approve the project with a "direct pay" option. Better to do the project under any conditions than not do it at all, right? Wrong!

The council needs to be smart about this project. Look at all the evidence to suggest that these types of projects are not the financial windfalls they are projected to be. There are far too many questions still unanswered and far too many risks. No one seems to be too concerned, if at all, about money when it comes right down to it: not the redevelopment authority, not the plan commission and not the council - at least that we've seen so far. The only ones concerned about money seem to be the developers and how much they can get from us and with the least risk possible for themselves. If that's not the case, then maybe some conversation and honest answers in public will start to dispel some of the mystery and skepticism. Until then, one can't help but feel we're being sold down the river again - this time down Five Rivers.

- Cheryl Hentz

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

Five Rivers info owed to taxpayers, citizens
Authored by: popo on Friday, February 24 2006 @ 04:16 PM MST
Isn’t part of the reason this project failed in Gladstone, Mich. because of financing problems? We have a city who wants to give away millions of dollars to this project but not allow the citizens know anything about it. Now council members or council candidates want to hide details. Hotel management? Is this not a former manager of the now bankrupt Park Plaza hotel now living in Milwaukee? "City of Oshkosh" come here we will help you build your business so you can take your money out of town.

Five Rivers info owed to taxpayers, citizens
Authored by: L Schaffer on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 09:17 PM MST
There is only one way,we the taxpayers will be able to get the information that we require and that is to have a binding referendum passed that will no longer allow closed door sessions, all citizens would be allowed to sit in and see how our elected officials do business or not do business. I know our elected officials would not like this because we will see and hear if they really and truely ask tough questions or if they get on their knees and beg to have businesses come to Oshkosh by offering them money That are favourable to businesses.

Five Rivers info owed to taxpayers, citizens
Authored by: bryanbain on Saturday, February 25 2006 @ 08:05 AM MST
Cheryl-
I asked Jackson Kinney the question you posed at the January Fifth Tuesday Forum and his response is posted on my website at http://www.bryanbain.com/FTF_notes_013006.htm. As with all Fifth Tuesday Forum notes, answers are posted as they are received from city staff.

I always post on my blog and OshkoshNews.org when notes are completed. I encourage you (or anyone) to check those websites or sign up for Fifth Tuesday Forum email updates on my website. I only send updates when a time and location has been chosen and when notes are completed and available online. I hope this helps.

-Bryan

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh

Contributed by: Mike Norton
There are those who did not like the .005 of 1 % sales taxes the County Executive was proposing to preserve jobs and for keeping the same level of services for Winnebago County. But at the same time supported the $10 a month garage fee, some called it necessary to balance the budget and called it better for it “was the greater of two evils”.Here is something for all of you to consider. If the garbage fee were made permanent for a full year, then at $10 (which it is presently and could go up) it would cost each household $120 a year. Now consider the .005 of 1% sales tax that the county was considering. One would have to spend $24,000 in sales taxable items to pay the amount equal to that of a full year of garbage fees. And remember the garbage fee will more likely to go up more and faster than the sales tax would. Also there is a movement in the state legislature to let municipalities have a sales tax.I have not seen or heard much resistance from the Chamber of Commerce or the newspaper concerning the garbage fee, yet it would hit people individuals harder than a proposed dales tax for the county . Just something for you all to think about as well as city council and county board supervisors to consider

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 19 2006 @ 03:25 PM MST
Mr. Norton:As usual, you are clueless.We HAVE to pay for garbage pick up so it really doesn't make a difference if you pay for it in taxes, or pay for it through a fee!The sales tax (that you supported) did NOT have to be implemented! The sales tax was supported because tax to the max people like you just want to spend more money. What happed to the 150 jobs that Mark Harris said would be lost. It seems your love for taxes wasn't justified.Wise up sir!

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Mark L. Harris on Sunday, February 19 2006 @ 04:26 PM MST
The sales tax would have also reduced the property tax on an average homeowner by about $70.00 per year. As to the number of positions eliminated they were generally estimated in ranges. I don't think 150 was ever mentioned but I could be wrong. I was interviewed on wild eyed radio and I estimated 40 positions would be eliminated in a balanced budget with a sales tax ,and about 100 in a balanced budget without a sales tax. The board only eliminated 43 positions but they fell 1.6 million short of passing a balanced budget.The headline of 140 positions was placed on an interview with Alex Hummel where I made the same statement ( 40 with a sales tax and 100 without). Alex called the next day and appologized explaining that the reporter does not write the headlines. You can still listen to the radio interview on Tony's web page. You can ask Alex Hummel when you see him or search for the article in the ONW archives. I think I was very honest with the public and the board about the choices we faced. I never expected anyone to like those choices. I will never understand why so many people prefer politicians that tell them pleasant lies over those that try to tell them the truth. The ultimate failure of a government is the insistance on spending more than they are willing to tax. The County now operates with less employees than at any time in the last ten years. It will likely continue to shrink year after year.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Kent Monte on Sunday, February 19 2006 @ 05:25 PM MST
As most know, I am strongly opposed to a fee for anything that is currently or previously covered by our property taxes. The sales tax I have nothing to do with so I will leave it alone except to say that I doubt we would have seen any break on our tax bill if it had been implemented.The Garbage fee is ridiculous. I think that if allowed to be implemented, it will not only never go away, it will get larger and be accompanied by more fees. This is a Pandora's Box that needs to be nailed shut. I have received emails and people have talked to me that are in favor of privatization and wanted me to contact a community that is currently doing it. My wife Michelle, who is running for school board {this advertisement approved by Monte for School Board :) }, lived in Manitowoc for 8 years under a private pick up and in the end, it was more expensive than $10/month for it. So given a choice, I would rather have the $10. But I will do it kicking and screaming. Tuesday is election day. Every vote counts. Make no mistake that I have done my homework and I will serve the best interests of this community and the hard working taxpayers in it. A vote for me is the right one and I hope to see you all on Tuesday.Thank you for reading and don't forget to vote.
Kent Monte

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Mark L. Harris on Sunday, February 19 2006 @ 07:19 PM MST
Kent, I do not for a moment doubt your sincerity and I share your dislike for the garbage collection fee. The city however is at the maximum levy allowed by the state imposed levy freeze. This means that nothing can be added back to the levy without an offsetting decrease in spending or an alternative source of revenue. Whoever is elected or re-elected to serve on the council will have the tough choice of selecting what can be cut or what fees can be used. I wish whoever is elected the wisdom to make these extremely tough decisions. As far as the property tax relief built into the sales tax resolution it was always written in the same resolution. That resolution was included in the executive budget for all to see. The advantage of the sales tax is that nearly 1.2 million would come from tourists and day visitors. My proposal also called for sharing a small amount of the revenue with all the communities in the county on a per capita basis. I believe Oshkosh's share would have been $120,000.Please give my other post (regarding TPA) some thought. If it should become law in its current form, it will make road reconstruction nearly impossible for Oshkosh.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 19 2006 @ 06:55 PM MST
I too wonder why people would rather listen to people tell them what they want to hear during the election only to get in to office and say "oh, I didn't know that, or we can't keep all your services and not raise your taxes, we'll have to start cutting, and the list goes on...I appreciate your candor Mr. Harris, fortunately the voters in Winnebago county did too!

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Mike Norton on Sunday, February 19 2006 @ 11:29 PM MST
If Winnebago County can collect totally in three years time and not have to foreclose and take the property outright.Which Winnebago County has to do from time to time. There a little extra revenue I believe 1% every month the taxes are unpaid.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: DP on Sunday, February 19 2006 @ 08:25 PM MST
Mike...it's .5 of 1%, but what's a couple of zeros to a county board supervisor!

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 27 2006 @ 08:59 AM MST
It seems to me that "Reformer" Mark Harris is turning into a typical "TAX and SPEND" Politician. He hasn't even been in office for a year and he is pushing a second attemt to raise our taxes. By making another attempt to put in place a county wide sales tax. --- (TAX)
On top of this is the Park View issue, which the Oshkosh Northwestern has been hammering him on. His wanting to spend an estimated 29 million on building a new building instead of the estimated 15 million it would cost to renovate the old Mercy Medical Building. Leaving the Tax Payers to have to pay an unnecessary additional 14 million dollars above what was necessary. --- (SPEND) ---- Link To The Northwestern Editorial
It really makes me wonder if we selected the right person to do the job as the Winnebago County Executive, and if we can afford to keep him in that position. We don't need a "Tax and Spend" politician in charge of the counties purse strings, and if these are the types of decisions that Mr. Harris is going to make with our money, maybe we need to put a different person in charge of the county. If I recall correctly Mr. Harris won the position by only a few percentage points (1% I believe). With the decisions he is making with the counties (our) finances maybe the people of Winnebago County should think about recalling him and putting someone into office who will be more fiscally responsible, after all, how hard would it be to make 1% of the voters change their mind in light of the decisions he has made...

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Mike Norton on Sunday, February 19 2006 @ 09:32 PM MST
I did not say I loved taxes as you say I do. What makes you say that. Of course you will not reveal yourself to all.To get back to the subject at hand. The sales tax would of done the same thing the garbage collection fee will do. Pay for services previously paid for property taxes. When positions are cut and there were cuts and services cut at the county level(the Huber facility being closed is one example) services are affected. Before being cut from the county budget these servces/positions were funded by revenues coming from property taxes and other sources. A sales tax, which I may or may not supported, would be paid by citizens outside Winnebago County as well as citizens in Winnebago County.Garbage collection was paid for by property taxes but now is paid for by a separate fee. This fee will be paid solely by the residents of Oshkosh.To DP and the original poster - sorry about .005 when in should of been .5. DP you imply zeroes do not mean much to me- I will point out to you that I have voted against 4 out 6 budgets while on the county board for various reasons. Does that make a big spender ? In your view I must be.I should of said half-cent sales tax to be safe. Thanks for the correction DP.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Mike Norton on Sunday, February 19 2006 @ 11:50 PM MST
Yes I know that the garbage collection is a service that has to be paid either by property taxes or a special fee. My point was some people claimed the sales tax was so unfair but could live with garbage fee. I am mainly talking about the Chamber of Commerce and one city council person. Paul Esslinger on "Eye on Oshkosh " called the garbage fee the "greater of two evils" which I took that statement to mean without the fee other actions would have to be taken. Actions even more unpopualr than garbage fee. You call me " tax to the max" type of person - why do you say this. I voted against 4 of the 6 county budgets. That plus other statements you have no basis of saying. The sales tax was not to spend more money- hardly= if anything to Keep the services at the same level as before.When reduce personnel something will suffer. A great many part-time seasonal employees were cut from the budget which means less maintenance for thebuilding and grounds owned and operated by Winnebago County.You seem to suggest that I think one or the other- half-cent sales tax vs. garbage fee- is better than the other. I do not, for I feel the city and the council should of done more to put off implementing the fee for 2006.The reason I started this post, I will state again is why such a uproar about the sales tax and not so much for the garbage fee.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 20 2006 @ 09:56 AM MST
I do not trust the current county board. I feel if the sales tax was passed the board would go on a spending spree rather than use the dollars to reduce taxes as the law was intended.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 20 2006 @ 12:24 PM MST
ditto

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 20 2006 @ 04:26 PM MST
Where could counties spend more- would have to put back the money the state and feds used to give to the counties for programs they created.Most are in mandates that they have imposed on the counties. Especially state government.Latest example the state created a new thing for counties to implement -creating a Elder Abuse Council and Program. But will they fund it, not one penny.Pass along a program and make some one else pay for it.Is that fair dr ?

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 20 2006 @ 05:41 PM MST
No it is not fair. There is nothing fair about the whole process. Is it fair that we are the 5th highest taxed state in the U.S.? Is it fair that the local cities and counties keep trying to find ways around the laws made by the state legislature to keep our taxes down? As long as we continue to raise wages and maintain benefit packages we can not afford to our city and county employees we will continue to go into a deeper and deeper hole. Yet our local governments continue to dole out the raises and benefits while finding new and creative ways (fees, sales tax, moving expenditures to the capital improvements budget) to tax us to pay for them. No it is not fair.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: L Schaffer on Monday, February 20 2006 @ 08:24 PM MST
I totally agree with you, it is not fair that our elected officials be it local, county, state and federal think that they know more than the taxpayer and they will only tell us what they want us to know. They say we want to keep you informed and they have nothing to hide, yet they keep information from us. Our elected officials asked us why we don't trust them is because they say one thing and then do another. The taxpayers are being asked to pay more and do with less and when you start to question their wisdom and try to bring up suggestions in order to save money they ignore you and hope you go away. Our elected officials do not want to hear from the taxpayers and they will do whatever they want no matter what it costs. It is time to start getting rid of these elected people and start putting people in place that will listen to the taxpayers.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 21 2006 @ 07:56 AM MST
I couldn't agree with the last two posts more.It would be a breath of fresh air to have someone like Scott Walker (Mke County's Exec.) come in and put a line in the sand. Look around in the private sector. Pension and benefit promises are imploding...IBM moves away from a pension type retirement system to a 401k style...companies that don't adapt go the way of the dinosours. I'm sick of hearing about mandates, quid pro quo with the unions, and scare tactics about how services will be lost. The Taxpayer Protection Act, while far from perfect, is the first salvo of the modern version of the Boston Tea Party. Bring it on.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 21 2006 @ 08:15 AM MST
Funny, I never heard a word about how we have to give the unions more money during the roar in the stock market when the private sector was rolling in money!

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 21 2006 @ 09:44 AM MST
Excellent point but it is futile to argue with the irrational

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 21 2006 @ 10:40 AM MST
Those in government jobs truly have lived in a fantasy world. Well, reality has hit. The closer your compensation packages get to that of the private sector the more we will hear you complain.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 21 2006 @ 11:44 AM MST
If you are talking compensation PACKAGES I think you will find they are in line with the private sector ---public sector employees usually have less in the salary area and better benefits than the private sector but overall compensation (salary & benefits) are about the same.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 21 2006 @ 01:02 PM MST
That's just not true. Please show me an independent study that shows that. When the county did that a few years ago, they did it in house with a bunch of unqualified and biased employees doing the "study". OH...WAIT...LOOK WHAT I FOUND ON MY DESK...According to the Federal Bureau of Labor Statistics, state and local government employees averaged $23.56 an hour in 2003, compared with $16.49 for private sector employees.Credit the city of Houston, who DID hire a professional actuarial firm to study their compensation. But then in true circle the wagons fashion, the city gladly reported PART of the findings...that the average city worker made about 19% less than the similar private sector job (about $32K vs. $38K). BUT, they maybe forgot to mention total compensation. They fail to mention that the average private sector worker participating in a 401(k) would have to receive a salary that's at least 25% higher during each year of his 30-year career, save every dime of that difference, and generate and 8.5% return in order to accumulate the same pension received by a city employee.I'll admit that executives and upper management probably do much better in the private sector, but overall, it's just not so.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 21 2006 @ 02:05 PM MST
Then again, do you think Mark Harris would be hired by a company of over 1000 employees to be the CEO? How about our city manager Dick W.? Would a corporation go out and hire an office manager to be the CEO of a large corporation? Could Mike Norton serve on the Board of Directors of a large company? I could go on, but I think you get the point.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 21 2006 @ 09:00 PM MST
If things are SOOOOOO bad, please throw your hat into the ring. The county board is looking for new blood.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 21 2006 @ 10:32 PM MST
Yes to Mark Harris no to Wollangk and Norton...

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Mark L. Harris on Tuesday, February 21 2006 @ 10:37 PM MST
I guess I am no Bernie Ebbers or Ken Lay but then who would want to be like them. I understand the point you are making but I do have some good credentials including a business and Law Degree from the University of Michigan a CPA certificate in two states and a sound mind, strong work ethic, and a good moral compass. I do my best for the people of Winnebago County and I don't think they deserve anything less.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 06:31 AM MST
While you may be a good man and a hard worker the fact remains that a corporation of over 1000 employees would not hire you to be a CEO.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Jim B. on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 06:52 AM MST
But what CEO type candidate would take the job of Winebago County Executive?Jim B.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 09:09 AM MST
How could it possibly be a "fact" that a corporation with over 1000 employees would not hire Mr. Harris... what do you base these "facts" on? It is a ridiculous statement, you can't possibly know what every corporation in the country would do. I think Mr. Harris has all the skills and more that a corporation of 10,000 employees would be looking for.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 07:09 AM MST
Mark, don't pay any attention to their childish, mean-spirited personal attacks. Their lack of critical thinking skills helps me understand they simply want a County Executive who will treat them like children and tell them everything is OK when it isn't, rather than be told the truth as an adult. You have inherited a tough situation and I appreciate your dedication, intelligence, and honesty!

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 07:38 AM MST
The conversation is about wages and benefits for government employees vs the private sector. No one said he is doing a bad job. I think we all understand the mess he inherited, as well as how tough the next budget cycle will be.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 08:29 AM MST
That's what is suppose to be about but if you read the postings you will find personal attacks against Mark that I do not believe should be made, especially in this forum.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Jim B. on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 08:47 AM MST
My comment was not meant as a slight to Mark Harris, whom I think is doing a good job and willing to make the tough decisions while not candy coating the situation . It is actually support for the task he has taken on. You would be hard pressed to find a CEO type to take on the job of County Executive considering the pay scale versus CEO pay scales. Not to mention the mess he has inherited.
Jim B.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 09:00 AM MST
I agree, Mark Harris has done a very good job with the cards that he was dealt and the mess that he inherited.Given that the position is elected and anyone could be elected, I think we are very fortunate to have someone with the experience, qualifications, and overall comprehension of the problems that this county faces.Although, when a nurse can be elected and create her own political machine, it makes you wonder whether this should be an elected or hired position. But would you really trust this County Board to hire someone for that position?I don't envy the tough decisions that are going to have to be made in the next couple of years.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: got it on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 06:48 PM MST
Don't forget, that nurse has a Master's Degree in Public Administration.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 08:37 PM MST
Wasn't she close to getting it, but did not have it while in office?

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 23 2006 @ 03:43 PM MST
What "mess" did he inherit? AA2 bond rating, 25 cents below the state cap, huh. He was on the county board and had all the power and privelege of the board and finance committee, he never talked "mess" because he was part of the policy makers. He was Mayor of Oshkosh. They apparently are "mess" free.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 23 2006 @ 05:45 PM MST
You must have short memory. The previous County Executive raided the general fund to make the previous budget work rather than making the necessary cuts. Couple that with a levy cap and you have a mess.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 23 2006 @ 06:56 PM MST
says who????

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 23 2006 @ 09:08 PM MST
I did, can't you read what I just wrote. Facts!

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 24 2006 @ 07:13 AM MST
I challenge you to email the department of sanitation as I did. The link is on the city web site. The email address is shutchison@ci.oshkosh.wi.us. His answer to me was "We currently have (17) fulltime Sanitation Operators within the Sanitation Division. Our Division is supplemented with an average of (4) inmates".

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 09:00 AM MST
Mark,I think you have done an excellent job for our county. I've come to realize that too many of the posters on this site and others really don't care to understand the issues, they just like to complain. I would like to thank you for all you do. This community is lucky to have an elected official like you.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 09:04 AM MST
I think the frustration that some show is not directed at Mark, but at the constant comparisons that county employees use to defend their pay packages.I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard the comparison of the County Executive's pay to the CEO of Kimberly Clark.That's where the frustration comes from...it's not a knock on Mark.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 09:11 AM MST
Well why wouldn't county employees use the comparison, posters are always saying their benefits need to be in line with the "private sector" why is that a fair comparison but the other is not?

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 21 2006 @ 09:01 PM MST
Nice broad brush!

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 01:35 PM MST
"Overall, the analysts forecast a 7.2 percent annual increase in health care costs over the coming decade. That's in line with the 7.4 percent increase in 2005."If true, and if levy limits will be capped at about 1/2 of this, government has no choice but to reduce benefits.

Sales Tax/Garbage Fee in City of Oshkosh
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 01:41 PM MST
The county has the proposed sales tax to fall back on and the city has the garbage fee for added revenue. They always find ways to tax or fee us more and avoid the necessary cuts.

taxpayer protection act (TABOR)

Contributed by: Mark L. Harris
The state legislature is holding invitation only hearings on legislation designed to limit State and local government revenues. The legislation would generally limit increases in property taxes and fees to a CPI calculation and for the city would also allow an adjustment for 60% of new construction and for the State and Counties allow for an adjustment for population growth. There is at least two serious defects in the legislation. It does not take into account declining or stagnant intergovernmental revenues, such as revenue sharing, and it includes the gross proceeds on bonds as increased revenue. This would make it impossible for local government to do road construction, sewer and stormwater projects, flood abatement, water treatment, sewage treatment or any other public investment in infrastructure without a referendum. What do Eye on Oshkosh readers think about this? Would it benefit Wisconsin by slowing the growth in taxes or would it harm Wisconsin by causing the infrastructure to be ignored and by making new business and residential development impossible?

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

taxpayer protection act (TABOR)
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 20 2006 @ 12:47 PM MST
You are correct on everything you say, but you'll never get the support of the everyday taxpayer until the public truly believes that all avenues have been made to be efficient.When times are supposed to be so tough, yet raises are still doled out. When the city employees pay a measly 5% for their gold plated health care. When a county worker pays $0.00 toward their retirement. When people hear stories of garbage collectors being home by 1pm everyday. When people hear stories of county workers who are embarassed about how little they do at work. When people see the finance director call raises in salary a cut just because the raise isn't as much as it used to be. When the public sees the city approve bonding in advance of state regulation and claims it will be for streets, then uses it to fund a swimming pool. When people see a sales tax proposed to partially cover operating expenses. And on, and on.While this legislation will definitely not be fair to local governments, possibly it will make them look for alternatives to solving their problems instead of alternative ways of raising cash from taxpayers.Benefits (health care) and pensions are the two things that will have to change. These antiquated programs are destroying some of the biggest corporations in the US. If government didn't have the taxing authority to "raise revenues", they would be in the same mess as GM or Ford. The pain that is going to come from the Taxpayers Protection Act will not be pretty, but it is necessary. Reagan defeated communism, and the taxpayers will defeat the socialist monster call local government.

taxpayer protection act (TABOR)
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 21 2006 @ 08:35 PM MST
I have to agree with Anonymous. TABOR does not prevent local government from doing things. It simply requires creativity in solving problems. The budget problems at the local level are primarily due to poor local decisions. Budget cuts should not be forced by outside pressures, they should be done proactively to allow better distribution of our tax dollars or tax cuts. Outsourcing is the obvious answer to many of the problems to reduce costs in health care, buildings, pensions, etc. Many potential opportunities are obvious, however need careful consideration by our political and managerial leaders to find real savings. Most reasonable people understand basic needs cannot be cut - but funding levels must change.

taxpayer protection act (TABOR)
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 21 2006 @ 10:36 PM MST
The budget problems at the local level are due to the state taking our tax dollars and not returning it (shared revenue) as the state promised originally. The budget problems also have to do with the state being incapable of keeping its own financial house in order but continually expecting local authorities to do more with less. Has local government made some poor choices? Yes. But it is mostly due to the state and its way of governing (and spending).

taxpayer protection act (TABOR)
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 09:02 AM MST
You clearly don't understand what TABOR would do, and I'm sure you don't want to understand but hopefully those who do will read Mr. Harris' comments.

taxpayer protection act (TABOR)
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 06:11 PM MST
HERE HERE !!!!I hate my job and my boss/owners want it that way what makes these nepotists in local gov. think they deserve what they have much less more?The free market is cold and unforgiving. my sister just lost her job of 29 years due to a plant closing. Yes it sucks but this will NEVER HAPPEN IN GOV! They will close parks before firing anyone! after all "anyone" has 9..13...15....21...30....years in toward his/her pension that would just be unfair/cruel!!!Harris says its an either or thing! BALONEY!!! He is a LIAR!There is NO.. I repeat NO incentive to look out for the tax payer in any form of gov.Example: The goldbricking culture of Milw. County Gov.pension scandal The porn surfing Fond Du Lac gov. employeeThe teachers union shoving tax referendum after tax referendum down the voters throats in communities all across this state unti they get their wayFees replacing taxes ( This tactic makes my BLOOD BOIL!!!!)Oshkosh city garbage men working 6..7 hour daysTABOR is a good.....GREAT thing...its like tossing tea into Boston harbor its patriotic, inspiringwhat could be more American than the citizens forcing gov. to be accountable to the people via referendumWE HAVE HAD ENOUGH!! AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!ANGRY IN OSHKOSH

taxpayer protection act (TABOR)
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 06:57 PM MST
Have you ever watched some of those city garbage men as they pick up garbage? Their assignment isn't based on HOURS, it's based on a job assignment. They have a route each day, and they are paid to complete their route. I have seen these guys RUN from house to house to pick up garbage. Their time involved is an incentive to them. They aren't dogging it- they're doing their jobs. And you have the gall to complain about it.If I could think of one of the most thankless jobs out there, it would be picking up garbage. Yet it happens, week in and week out, and the only time we notice it is when something goes wrong. My hat is off to these guys who work their butts off, and I, for one, don't care WHEN they finish as long as they get their jobs done.Your response to this will certainly be that if they finish in 6 hours, they should come up with 2 more hours of work to do. Tell them you're going to do that and I guarantee their routes will take 8 hours, or longer...and if that happens, you'll be back to paying an hourly wage, which will blossom into overtime. Guaranteed.

taxpayer protection act (TABOR)
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 08:52 PM MST
Most of the city garbage collectors are actually inmates from the local jail. So they are not commanding big salaries and benefits.

taxpayer protection act (TABOR)
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 23 2006 @ 06:58 AM MST
Most? I question that statement.

taxpayer protection act (TABOR)
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 23 2006 @ 07:30 AM MST
Check with the work release center. Then check with the city. I think you'll find there are relatively few actual city employees working in the portion of public works that collects trash. I beleive the number is something like 11.

taxpayer protection act (TABOR)
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 23 2006 @ 12:06 PM MST
I emailed Sean Hutchison of the city sanitation department and he said there are 17 full time sanitation workers and an averge of 4 inmates at any given time.

taxpayer protection act (TABOR)
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 23 2006 @ 12:20 PM MST
We are not talking about the entire sanitation department. We are talking about just the guys on the trucks.

taxpayer protection act (TABOR)
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 23 2006 @ 02:21 PM MST
His reply stated there was an average of 4 prisoners on duty per day. The balance of the crews were city workers.

taxpayer protection act (TABOR)
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 24 2006 @ 05:01 PM MST
Wasn't the Boston Tea Party about Taxation WITHOUT Representaion? Isn't that what the Tax Payer Protection Act would do when it removes the responsibilities as well as the opinions of publicly elected officials?

taxpayer protection act (TABOR)
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 24 2006 @ 08:08 PM MST
Hey it worked in Colorado. Taxes were kept down. Of course, response times of police and fire also dropped, snow plowing stopped in some cities, and education (K-12) and the University system dropped considerably, and roads were considerably worse. You get what you pay for folks.

Kraft vs Palmeri

Contributed by: Anonymous
Kraft 1 Palmeri 0 as AG office gives a verbal opinion in favor of the city.

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Kraft vs Palmeri
Authored by: admin on Thursday, February 16 2006 @ 01:52 PM MST
Someone anonymously submitted a story for publication concerning a verbal comment from an attorney in the Attorney General's office. This story is not being published here because what the person did was copy and paste the entire story as it appeared online at the Oshkosh Northwestern's web site. Even though the paper and reporter, Alex Hummel, were credited, I do not believe the manner in which this was done falls within the guidelines for Fair Use - mainly because it was copied in its entirety.

If the person who submitted it would like to offer a synopsis and provide a link to the story, I will be happy to run it that way. But we have not in the past nor will we now or in the future knowingly violate Fair Use laws, infringe upon someone else's copyright or knowingly tread even closely to doing so.

- Cheryl Hentz

Kraft vs Palmeri
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 16 2006 @ 06:42 PM MST
So it sounds like the AG agreed with Warren Kraft and said the meeting was within the law. I wonder what Paul Esslinger will use as his excuse now?

Kraft vs Palmeri
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 16 2006 @ 09:03 PM MST
It was the assistant AG and we do not know what Hummel told him to get the comment,

Kraft vs Palmeri
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 16 2006 @ 09:14 PM MST
I still fail to see what negotiations were done with the developer on Tuesday. I thought the city's responsibility was a done deal.

I wish the council or staff could let the people know exactly where this project stands. There's no agreement in place, yet the negotiations on the city's committment seem to be done. A date for GROUNDBREAKING is set. How can there be a date when groundbreaking must commence and yet, there not even be an agreement in place??

From what has been leaked and discussed, it appears to me that everything is in place except the financing for the developer. Is that the case?? Does anyone know??

From the comment of some of the council members, it appears that this project is far from a done deal.

Kraft vs Palmeri
Authored by: admin on Friday, February 17 2006 @ 06:50 AM MST
There is a huge difference between a reporter calling and asking a general type question and an investigation prompted by the filing of a formal complaint.

But in the meantime it's funny how some people want to quickly grasp this "decision" and rub people's noses in it as we've seen in a few places now, when some of those same people were unwilling to accept a formal decision on the bathroom construction bid-waiving. It was only "an opinion" then, remember?

I think before people start getting too excited or acting too arrogantly about this "news", they would be well-advised to wait for something more official. And that won't come for weeks or months following an investigation. I will respect whatever decision is ultimately handed down, but it has to be something more official than this.

- Cheryl Hentz

Kraft vs Palmeri
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 17 2006 @ 07:26 AM MST
An excuse from what?

Kraft vs Palmeri
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 17 2006 @ 11:45 AM MST
We'll see how this deal progresses, but I don't have a very good feeling about how this is going. I give it a 50/50 chance at this point.

Has anyone looked at the viability of owning one of these "condos" as an investment property? Who would purchase these? Minimum $105K (from their website..."pre-construction pricing from $105,000) for a 376 square foot hotel room. Unless you're planning on living there, or using it for several weeks per year, I don't see how this would be a good investment.

Considering that $35 to $40 million will be raised (my guess...312 condos @ ?) by the sale of the individual condos, wouldn't you think that you would be seeing more marketing to determine the ability to sell these things? Maybe that's happening somewhere else, but like a lot of things regarding that project, who knows?

School Calendar

Contributed by: Michelle Monte
I wrote this last night and posted it on my blog: www.monteforschoolboard.blogspot.com

I just returned from the forum and tucked my kids into bed. I brought my children to put a face on the issue because it is very easy to dismiss a statistic. Also because my autistic daughter has been having serious behavior problems on early release Wednesdays. One of the teachers she needs to see every day to help her adjust from gym to classroom, is not available on early release Wednesdays. I will not defend my right to protect my child's interests and education.

I also asked each board member if they had come to the forum with an open mind as they will be taking recommendations to the OEA. Four members, including McDermott, Kavanaugh, Bowen, and Sween said they agree with the early Wednesdays. Bowen has been heard to say at Board meetings and in other committee meetings that she is in favor of keeping the current calendar for 2 to 3 more years. McDermott sited the complaints about early release and late starts on the calendar as being one of the motivations for change. Muza piped in about frequency being important and how Fridays interfere with sports and other extracurricular activities. I was surprised Weinsheim was so tight lipped as she was one who said 600 signatures in a district of over 10,000 students wasn't significant enough last spring.

Several times the word "predisposed" came up with several board members. They were predisposed to Wednesdays. McDermott stated that it would take a lot to convince him that Wednesdays should be changed. Bowen reassured me that predisposed did not mean "close-minded." Though she thinks the calendar may need to be "tweaked," changing to Fridays was not tweaking, it is changing and they do not want to "change" anything.

A couple of parents said Wednesdays were not a problem for them, the lack of communication, loss of instruction, and lack of preparation by the district were the problems. No one said the calendar was a good idea. No one spoke and said, "this was great, you guys did wonderfully, atta boy." There were a lot of recommendations for Fridays and less frequency. There were also suggestions of alternative plans. The survey revealed 64 responses: 60% (38) expressed problems with Wednesdays and/or recommended Fridays; 26% (17) had no problem with Wednesdays and had children over the age of 12; 14% (9) had no problems with Wednesdays and had children under 12. One couple, both teachers in this district, expressed issues about picking up their kids early and the cost of care. They aren't the only teachers I have heard form with similar concerns.

One comment from Wayne Traska struck a chord with me. He said he talked to members of OEA and they were willing to negotiate if they were paid for the time. Schneider pointed out that we can't afford to pay more. I wonder, several board members stated in the past that OEA was not interested in alternative plans. Of course none could say tonight what the alternatives were that were presented to OEA. I wonder if OEA is more receptive to ideas for the calendar than the current board has made out. I wonder if a list of detailed alternatives were discussed, could a better received consensus be met? I wonder if it isn't OEA's rigidity that is the problem, but the two members of the Board representing us in negotiations. I hope anyone in OEA who reads this could answer that.

This isn't a matter of to have or not have collaboration. I believe, as do most parents, that collaboration is a great idea. I wonder if there is another day and/or time collaboration can be accomplished. That is all I am asking is if this is the ONLY way. The board claims they took alternative plans to the OEA but were shot down.

Over all I think the "survey" was marketing propaganda to sell collaboration. No one disputes that collaboration is beneficial. It seems that there is this continuing wedge driven between OEA and the parents as though to not like Wednesdays early release is to not like collaboration. That is where better communication comes in, I think. The forum tonight seemed more like a token effort at better communication. "See. See. We're communicating. We are predisposed to our ideas only, but we are communicating." Last spring nearly a dozen people spoke against the calendar and over 500 signatures were presented on a petition. This year nearly a dozen people spoke against the calendar. Last year one person spoke in favor of the calendar, none spoke tonight. 60% of parents on the survey have problems with Wednesdays. Majority seems to have no bearing with current board members. I don't see the survey or this forum as having any weight on the five board members who keep ignoring the concerns of the people who voted for them in the first place. Maybe we just need to shout louder. CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW!!!

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School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 16 2006 @ 11:08 AM MST
If someone indicated we should pay for more collaberation, I wonder if they even understand the issues, much less someone who is running for School Board? There is talk of cutting a VIP ? program that deals with teen pregnancies and mentoring students that need additional service. The community should pay more for what? Staff already earn on average over 50,000 per year I am told. With benefits, what is it total? My sister is a teacher and believe me, we shouldn't have to pay more.

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 16 2006 @ 12:56 PM MST
The early release issue boils down to this: Some parents use the school system for their childcare. The early release on some Wednesdays interferes with some parents' work schedules. I say, tough.

Your first responsibility when you have a family is to your children. I am not about the debate the merits of early release, but if the school system has decided that early releases will occur on Wednesdays, then you as a parent have the responsibility to adjust your schedule to make it work for your kids. It's really that simple.

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 16 2006 @ 01:04 PM MST
Anonymous, 12:56.

You are thick. What about the change in bell schedule on those days? dont you see that as an interuption with the students attention and learning?
Do you think taht the parents can just say "tough" to their boss and leave early 2 or 3 times a month? I am guessing that you don't work or you have an understanding employer. I have been able to make adjustments, but there are those who cannot. there are some parents out there that work 2 jobs just to make ends meet and now you want to pile more on. You need to think about more than yourself.

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 16 2006 @ 01:13 PM MST
No, schools are not daycare centers. Families do not use schools as child care centers. Families who need to work to pay the bills and feed the children they are responsible for, work during school hours to cut down on expenses so they can take care of their children.

However, schools are for teaching students. Cutting the calendar doesn't help them. Every year the district has to apply to the state for a waiver because we are below the recommended days of instruction. The Board said we are getting time back, but they are also calling early releases full days of school. There is a reason the state recommends 180 days and not 177 or 175. We are short changing education. And why is it the parents always have to make accomodations for the benefit of the kids. Why can't the teachers make accomodations since collaboration benefits them and the kids?

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 16 2006 @ 01:16 PM MST
It is called the teachers union. As long as Doyle is in office the teachers union will keep calling the shots when it comes to education in our state. Sad but true.

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 16 2006 @ 01:18 PM MST
Maybe we should get someone on the board with a backbone to stand up to the union and some of the board members for that matter.

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 18 2006 @ 11:54 AM MST
Where is the proof fewer minutes is "short-changing" education? Are test scores going down?

School Calendar
Authored by: DBCooper on Saturday, February 18 2006 @ 12:03 PM MST
An equally valid question would be:

"With increased "collaboration", are test scores going UP"???

Where or what is the management plan to ensure that what is being put into place, "collaboration", is actually working? This is what is truly lacking at both the school board and administration level. They are constantly trying something new, generally speaking at increased cost, but when does the effectivity get measured?

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 18 2006 @ 12:12 PM MST
Research across the country says yes, scores go up when teachers collaborate. Too early to tell in Oshkosh you need 3 years of data to determine trends.

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 18 2006 @ 01:10 PM MST
Research also shows that results are invalidated by increasing variables. Before we even see results on collaboration (which we have been doing for two years now), we are restructuring Middle and high schools. A year from now we will be going to block scheduling if the board continues on the current line. With three new programs back to back, how will we know what is working and what isn't. And in the mean time, the students suffer because there is no continuity. Our greatest concern should be the students. Has anyone figured in the cost of reversing damage?

Thanks For Reading.
Michelle Monte

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 19 2006 @ 07:27 AM MST
Where is the research that shows minutes of instruction is what matters most? At least those in favor of collaboration, restructuring have shown research for thier side.

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 19 2006 @ 07:57 AM MST
I really can't believe that anyone could doubt that more face to face instruction does not benefit kids. Where is the research from the district that Wednesdays are the best day for collaboration?

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 19 2006 @ 08:35 AM MST
There isn't any, Wed. are simply more convenient for the administration and teachers. That is what they said during the meeting. Nobody is willing to entertain a different idea.

By the way, I don't think that anyone is disputing the collaboration time, just when and how it is done. I dont like taking away constructive face to face time for it, that is something that can be done after a normal school day. If the teachers want it so bad, they can do it then.

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, February 19 2006 @ 10:11 PM MST
Some people don't "like" Wed. well that's the way it goes. You can't always have it your way. Personally I like the fact that my children can get their homework done before supper and since there are no activities on Wed. evening we can have family time with homework out of the way. I don't think the board should make decisions to keep 15 people happy. Just like the boundary issues of the past, people get upset, come to the board meeting and say "don't change my boundary" so the board does nothing...I guess that's what we have to look forward to with some of these candidates running who don't like the calendar. All it will take to keep things as they are will be to get 15 people to come to a few meetings saying don't change anything and the board will cave again. Don't expect something different, it seems pretty clear it is govern by listening to whoever shouts loudest.

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 20 2006 @ 06:45 AM MST
When did the board listen to anything the public had to say.
Besides, I have said from the beginning that Wed are fine. I don't believe in early release. It is too much of a disruption. If you don't believe me, since you have so much time on your hands, go to school and take a look for yourself what happens on a shortened day.

I went to an early release school and those days were difficult to manage although the kids did like getting out of school early.
Maybe this should be a referendum question? One that would make a difference and eliminate all of this bickering.

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 20 2006 @ 01:06 PM MST
Why do you think there have been no major boundary changes since 1998, no reconfiguration of school, no school closings??? Because people got mad, filled the board room or Tipler gym and the board backed down. If that isn't listening what is it? Same thing happened when it was proposed to end the Elementary Strings program, Tipler gym was filled up, people spoke to save the program and it wasn't cut, if that's not listening what is it???

15 people is NOT a ground swell, it isn't a majority, it is a small but loud group, that's all.

School Calendar
Authored by: L Schaffer on Monday, February 20 2006 @ 08:39 PM MST
Why would parents try to change the minds of the school board, the school board mind is already made up, even if another plan is better. Our elected board members are going to do whatever they want, just as long as they do not upset the teachers and if you upset the teachers, they might become clockwatchers. What needs to be done is to start getting rid of the people on this school board that are closed mined and will not listen, you start doing that maybe just maybe the rest will start to listen for fear of being voted off the board.

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 21 2006 @ 09:48 AM MST
Go back and read the post about boundary lines and budget cuts, you will see that when people are upset about something EVEN IF they think the board has made up their mind, they come out in DROVES and the board has not made the changes... check out the past minutes... they are all at the library.

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 20 2006 @ 01:49 PM MST
In the larger picture, the issue is less about the calendar than the fact that the Administration has done a lousy job sharing what's been accomplished with collaboration thus far. Likewise, the Board has done a lousy job holding Administration accountable for doing so. We can all get past the fact that the calendar is what it is, but the fact that the communication stinks, and the Board doesn't seem to even suggest to Administration to make an effort to communicate what's happening is still troublesome. I would think the district would be falling over itself to show everyone how much gain is being made during this collaboration time. Here's a feather in their cap, why don't they flaunt it?

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 20 2006 @ 03:38 PM MST
As has been said repeatedly at meetings, it will take 3 to 4 years to have definitive proof right now there isn't any data because test results are not in yet. Research shows this works elsewhere. Many schools have printed information in their newsletter about collaboration and there have been several updates at board meetings about how collaboration time is being used. You can't expect a personal phone call.

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 20 2006 @ 05:58 PM MST
Again, how will we know if collaboration is working once restructuring is implemented? And how will we know collaboration and restructuring are working once block scheduling is implemented? Too many variables spoils the pot. If something goes drastically wrong, how will we know what did it and how long will it take to recover? Are we really willing to take such a large gamble? Why can't we stick with one thing at a time and see if it works before dumping more on our kids?

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, February 20 2006 @ 06:06 PM MST
What makes you think in the information age, the factory schedule of 7 periods a day is the best thing. I want the best reseach has to offer, NONE of these things are new to education, just new to OSHKOSH.

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 09:18 AM MST
Where's the reasearch on Wednesdays?

School Calendar and Research
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 01:28 PM MST
i get really sick of administrators from the district throwing the term "research" around. a magazine article is research to them. they should be called on it every single time they use the word. research implies statistically significance. i will guarantee they have none on collaboration, 4 year kindergarten, all day kindergarten, sage, nor everyday math. i know because i have tried to find some.

School Calendar and Research
Authored by: Michelle Monte on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 02:50 PM MST
The whole calendar issue has been distorted. The argument isn't for or against collaboration. The argument is about cutting instructional time from the calendar. Last year a good chunk of time was cut from the calendar. This year a small amount was added back. There are no plans to add any more back in the future. In addition, it is my understanding, that block scheduling will cut more time from the high school schedule.

Another part of the argument is about not communicating with families. That is still a big problem.

The day of the week is a pain no matter which you choose. Some parents think that if teachers want to collaborate, they should do it on their time, not our children's. Most of us would be willing to compromise and accept the early releases if they were on a day that makes more sense to the majority of local employers and family schedules. Even with a compromise, we still want the instructional time back. We are well below the state recommended minimums for days AND hour. I am thinking the state has a recommended minimum for a reason, and we are doing our children a disservice by seeing how low we can go.

In addition, the board keeps blaming the teachers' union for not being more flexible and the OEA blames the BOE for not budging. It is hard to know what to believe when neither is communicating with the public beyond the excuse that the calendar is a negotiated contract item.

---
Thanks for reading.


School Calendar and Research
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 03:00 PM MST
I don't think the district can be below the minimum number of minutes, that is why it is a minimum. I think the district is just slightly above the minimum number of minutes.

School Calendar and Research
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 03:04 PM MST
Oops, I meant minimum number of hours not min. sorry...

School Calendar and Research
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 04:44 PM MST
We are below the MINIMUM RECOMMENDED HOURS AND DAYS.there is no legal minimum.i think you are confused by what she was saying.even the board acknowleges they are bwleo the minimum recommended time.

School Calendar and Research
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 07:31 PM MST
Yes there is a legal minimum number of hours, the recommendation is for 180 days which can be waived but the "Annually schedule at least 437 hours of direct pupil instruction in kindergarten, at least 1,050 hours of direct pupil instruction in grades 1 through 6 and at least 1,137 hours of direct pupil instruction in grades 7 to 12. Scheduled hours under this subdivision include recess and time for pupils to transfer between classes but do not include the lunch period." this is the REQUIRED minimum under the law.

School Calendar and Research
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 07:36 PM MST
arent we one hour above the legal minimum?

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 01:41 PM MST
show me the statistically significant research. good luck!

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 01:40 PM MST
tell me where i can find ANY statistically significant research that shows this works. i'll be waiting.

School Calendar
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 02:07 PM MST
Research! Isn't this just the new term we throw out instead of the word STATISTICS which everyone is now skeptical of? Our kids aren't rats and our schools aren't mazes so what kind of reasearch could REALLY be done to show results of something that is just one small factor in the overall education scenario. Even if we find postitve RESULTS in the level of eductaion the next few years I'm not sure that it can be directly traced to collaboration.

Don't get me wrong, I'm for collaboration and for having it on Wednesdays. The old way where our teachers only had time designated to collaborate twice a year was absurd. The following point was made to me by an OASD administrator... "the old way of doing things had each teacher as an "independant contractor" They were given benchmarks the students had to reach and then they "closed their classroom doors" and how they went about teaching was their own decision. The new model is to have more consistency from teachers, on what and how they teach. And to let teachers who may have had success in on area share it with other teachers. to do this they must have time to collaborate."

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 16 2006 @ 01:17 PM MST
That someone was Wayne Traska. He said that he talked to OEA members who said they would change things if they were paid more.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 16 2006 @ 01:31 PM MST
I think what Mr. Traska said was that the OEA presented options to the Board that wouldn't interrupt student's or parents schedule, but those options were only available if the teachers were paid more.

I didn't get the impression that he was urging the Board to spend money, but asked if those options were even considered....i.e. were all options discussed and debated in an effort to reach a palatable result for all parties vs. slamming the door.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 16 2006 @ 03:13 PM MST
Several people asked and the Board claimed they did present several ideas but wouldn't say what. I wonder what really happened. The two members of the board on the bargaining committee (Kavanaugh and McDermott) are "predisposed" to Wednesdays.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 16 2006 @ 03:45 PM MST
If they feel Wednesday is the appropriate day then that is the way it is. We do not have enough support to get it changed. My suggestion would be to replace the 2 board members you speak of. Until then accept defeat. While I support you, we lost this round.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 18 2006 @ 12:00 PM MST
So you replace the board members with new members who will do whatever 10-15 people come to a meeting and tell them to do? Or will it only take one person coming multiple times? That's a scary way to run a school district. What happens if the union doesn't agree? Will you then not have a calendar by Sept. then what? What is the plan then. So much for making vacation plans if you don't even know what the calendar is in August. Could happen under the "stand up to the union" plan.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 18 2006 @ 12:03 PM MST
Maybe the risk of not having a calendar would be an incentive to making reasonable compromises and getting the issue settled.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 18 2006 @ 12:04 PM MST
Oh, I bet you have a lot more than 15 parents mad if you don't have a calendar by Sept... but hey why not give it a try and see how that comes out.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 21 2006 @ 09:52 AM MST
One of the two board members you speak of was re-elected last year (highest vote getter too) in the middle of this calendar issue that supposedly the majority of people didn't like. Then why was Mr. McDermott overwhelmingly re-elected when he voted for this calendar. Maybe it just isn't the BIG issue to everyone you seem to think it is.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 02 2006 @ 07:40 AM MST
Because he is fence sitter and the other options were ridiculous

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 09:13 AM MST
Given the election results can we finally put the calendar issue to rest?

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22 2006 @ 11:54 AM MST
Just because you disagree on 1 issue with members of the board does not mean you will not vote for them. This was not a referendum on early release. So to answer your question, no.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 02:06 PM MST
too many people use the term "research". a magazine article is research to many of them. they should be called on it every single time they use the word. research implies statistical significance. i will guarantee they have none on collaboration, 4 year kindergarten, all day kindergarten, sage, nor everyday math. i know because i have tried to find some. and yes asge is included in that read research- even read Mollnar's work. he admits it in between the lines fashion.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 02:34 PM MST
Why don't you read the Project Star report (this is the reseach the SAGE program was founded on) from Tennessee regarding class size where they randomly assigned students to one of 3 situations:
1) 22-25 students with one teacher
2) 22-25 students and one teacher and one aide
3) 13-17 students with one teacher

The students were followed through high school and those in the smaller classes in grades K-3 were found to:
outperform students in larger classes (22-25 pupils) in both reading and math on the Stanford Achievement Test for elementary students. The second phase of the STAR research found that even after returning to larger classes in grade 4, STAR’s small class students continued to outperform their peers who had been in larger class sizes.

The research further found:

Students placed in small class sizes in grades K-3 had better high school graduation rates, higher grade point averages, and were more inclined to pursue higher education.

There is a lot more but that is significant research that smaller classes do make a difference.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 02:58 PM MST
i have done more that read the star report- i studied it. there was no statistically significant improvement for small classes with one very tiny exception- poor black boys showed very minor improvement.

there were many flaws with the star report. the star people would not release their data for others to study.

other studies seemed to show other factors much more improtant than class size. reread it and reread molnars closely.

there is no meaningful statistical significance. NONE.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 03:12 PM MST
You are confusing the STAR report with the SAGE report (they are two different reports) and you are completely WRONG as it relates to STAR --- just Google Project STAR and Tennessee... you will find the report, a summary etc.

Frederick Mosteller, Professor Emeritus of Mathematical Statistics at Harvard University called it (Project STAR)

"one of the most important educational investigations
ever carried out and illustrates the kind and magnitude of research needed in the field of education to strengthen schools"

So I guess I'll take the word of a Harvard Mathematical Statistics professor over an anonymous poster who doesn't know one study from the other.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 28 2006 @ 08:36 PM MST
Wednesdays were picked because there is the least amount of conflicts with other after-school activities. As far as collaboration goes, every company I've ever seen knows they have to put time in the weekly schedule for meetings even though it DIRECTLY takes away from their employees productive time. Imagine if your employer said you needed to stay late and "unpaid" for your weekly staff meeting. If you want to see results of collaboration, ask a parent who has a kindergartener this year about the wonderful new report cards that were devised this year BECAUSE of collaberation.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 28 2006 @ 10:09 PM MST
Every company I know has there employees work 12 months out of the year!!!!

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 09:22 AM MST
Well thats a tried and true argument usually rolled out when ever any issue about teachers comes up but it really has NO relevance to this argument. The kindergarten report cards were just ONE example of things that have come out of collaboration. At this point I think anyone who is against the early realease Wednesdays because they feel inconvienieced by it will look for any reason to bash collaboration.

Personally I think that there is ALOT more wrong with the school schedule than releasing 45 minutes early twice a month, like why is it still based on an agrarian economy yearly schedule or a daily schedule that assumes that one parent does not work? Maybe we should be talking about a year round school calendar with an 9-10 hour school day to better reflect the schedule of most parents these days. But how would we ever be able to begn to discuss something like that when a change as minor as the early release Wednesdays meets with such anger?

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Authored by: Jim B. on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 09:27 AM MST
School schedules should not be dictated by parents schedules! I sure don't want my children in school for 9-10 hours a day. A lot of adults don't have that long of a day, how could you expect children to handle it. I am for year round school, but I don't think you have to increase the days hours. I have lived in places that they 8 weeks on and 2-4 weeks off depending on the time of year.

Jim B.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 09:55 AM MST
The one bad thing about the written word is that sarcsm is often hard to perceive. While I do think that it is time to "redo" the school schedule to better reflect our modern day lifestyles, I was over exagerating that shcool should be all year long and 9-10 hours a day. That is called DAY CARE and I feel it is what many parents want who are complaining about the early release times.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 03:43 PM MST
the issue several had regarding the calendar wasn't as much the "what" as it was the "how". They didn't put a thought into how it would be implemented, tossed it out like it was no big deal, and then were left scrambling to find ways to plug the holes. Not a very effective or efficient way to do something, let along create a sense of trust.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 01 2006 @ 06:41 PM MST
I agree that last year the OASD Admin. and the Board blew it when it came to setting the schedule and changing the early release to more frequesnt Wednesdays. It was "shoved down parents throats" without seeking deedback and that is wrong. But I think the justification for doing it on Wednesdays and more frequently is sound. Now that it's been a year, I think it should be kept as it is to see if it will provide results. Yes, the results may be hard to measure but I think we need to have a bit of trust in our educators to decide if its working. I think to only look at this as a mater of how many minutes our children are in class now is shortsighted as one of the goals of collaberation is to make those minutes more productive.

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Authored by: L Schaffer on Tuesday, February 28 2006 @ 10:24 PM MST
Is that all that has come out of collaberation, new report card, what a waste of time and money. Collaberation should be held during the last few weeks of August, just before school starts so you have more time to talk instead of maybe 4 hours a month.